Anyone still on emusic seen any evidence of the moderators in the last week or so? Maybe I am being more selective in which threads I read over there, but I do wonder what they are doing - certainly not dealing with queries about sound quality. It could, of course, be that they are removing inappropriate posts, so we have no evidence of that!!
ugh - seems i owe mommio an explonation. dave incorrectly outed me as the person tossing insults his way. i'd like to tell you it was all a big joke and everyone got the punch line but...
i did reach out to him and wanted to make sure no hard feelings were in place and, btw, it wasn't moi - i was just watching along like gobs of other folks.
in any event, it turned out for the best - he and i found out quite a bit more - one to the other - and we're far better for the experience. it prodded me into getting in touch with nereffid as a by-product (huge bonus when you get down to weighing the additions to your life) and interplay with tim mason also came in stride shortly thereafter. i genuinely miss tim and really need to come to terms with re-connecting with nereffid's castle. writing at a larger level.
but i digress...
back on topic: those boards are beyond my reach and moderators are not for me...peace.
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@bad thoughts: billy zoom, huh? he can rip it up and smile pretty at the same time...you can't see X and not come away with his image imprinted all over.
It might be if they were actually doing it... I mean, at this point, I almost have to believe that the "Moderating Team" was some sort of practical joke played by the eMusic Customer Service department (if one can even call it that) on their own customers.
I just hope they got a few laffs out of it!
However, I will say that their apparent strategy of waiting for everyone who objects to the recent service changes to cancel their subscriptions seems to be working. The tone being used by the people who have stuck around hasn't changed much, but the number of negative posts seems to be decreasing in proportion to the number of negative posters.
I am mystified by the moderator strategy as well. Trying to improve the resentment level by answering questions for a couple of days then ignoring everyone for a week seems an odd tactic.
However, I will say that their apparent strategy of waiting for everyone who objects to the recent service changes to cancel their subscriptions seems to be working. The tone being used by the people who have stuck around hasn't changed much, but the number of negative posts seems to be decreasing in proportion to the number of negative posters
i have no idea if that's their strategy; i rather doubt it, tbh. but whatever, at this point, i hope the negative posters go away.
I certainly sympathize with your wanting to see the boards go back to being less divisive, but corporations rot from the head down, and the stench of that has long since reached the customers. You can blame the music industry for it to some degree, but not all of it. What eMu is suffering starts at the top, and having a few underlings call themselves "moderators" for a couple of days isn't going to change it one little bit.
my problem isn't so much wanting the boards to go back to being less divisive and more that i have a negative reaction to the tone of many of these complaints, which are childish, repetitive, self-congratulatory and i think grossly overstate the extent of their influence and numbers. to be clear, i'm not happy with all the on-site changes, either. but i got tired quickly of the nature of the banter.
I don't mean any disrespect, but if you really think they're childish, repetitive, self-congratulatory etc., then what you really want to do is have no reaction whatsoever.
having no idea of what you all are talking about is a dream come true. for what it's worth the time not spent on those boards is well spent on other efforts.
i do miss exploring music, no doubt. and i need to figure out a way to have brighter put together a mix for me (mebbe 8 trax?) but on whole life w/out the belly-aching boards is a huge plus. i'll get around to exploring through last.fm once a few home projects get knocked out so life without emusic is simply an adjustment.
if the board is like dope to you i advise taking a week and have brighter, nereffid and elwood open up genres for you. since the great whack-back (I and II) there's less "time" to explore and more to board...getting back to the fundamentals is tough, but less board is the way to go
I don't mean any disrespect, but if you really think they're childish, repetitive, self-congratulatory etc., then what you really want to do is have no reaction whatsoever.
that's what i've done. one time recently i said something about it, which ended with a "time is up!," "emusic must be taught a lesson!"-type response. beyond that, i've ignored it, and actually for the most part withdrawn from the emusic board entirely.
As I said a few days ago the only reasonI now look at the boards there is to see dhaun's latest European additions in case I've missed something that has gone into a wrong section. I occasionally get drawn into discussions but that is becoming rarer, deliberately. The quality of this board is so much better - I'm getting into so many different things musically from the recommendations and what people are playing. I do actually wonder if the moderator thing was another emusic short term fix that has now left people more disillusioned. I can't access Guvera here in Europe (I've tried twice - the last time was last Friday) so emusic at its European prices is still worth while - just avoid the boards!
Please don't misunderstand me, folks... what I'm sayin' is that if y'all want the eMu boards to go back to discussing primarily music, you actually have to be proactive, not reactive. Avoiding the boards (and, some would argue, the internet in general) will obviously be better for your own mental health, but not for eMu as a community - you have to use them to discuss music and ignore the other stuff, and if enough people do that, a balance will be reached and things will eventually return to normal... whatever that is. I see that some people here are trying to do that, and that's good and commendable. I might even join you even, but my account is on hold at the moment and frankly, I'm still too pissed off.
I guess my only real point here is don't get your hopes up - I don't believe enough people will put in the necessary effort, given the extent of the damage to eMu's reputation, goodwill, credibility, etc. What I do believe is that it actually takes more effort to discuss music intelligently than to gripe and complain about corporate misbehavior. What's more, the people griping about what's happened to eMu are not "trolls" or even a squeaky-wheel minority - they're customers, they belong there, and eMu caused this, not them.
What's more, the people griping about what's happened to eMu are not "trolls" or even a squeaky-wheel minority - they're customers, they belong there, and eMu caused this, not them.
this is more true now, but it wasn't the case, say, a month ago. at that point, it was a small group determined to clog up everything on the boards, and interrupt other people's discussions, to force their agenda -- and only their agenda -- to the front. as i think i said before, it was like you're having dinner with a friend at a restaurant, and someone runs up to your table and starts waiving their arms frantically, demanding that you pay attention only to them and their gripes.
So they're not going to replace the UMG files. Not surprising, but still kind of baffling.
How on earth do you make the decision to offer a lower-quality product than every last one of your competitors? Hope most people don't notice, I guess.
I can't say I'm surprised at their not replacing the files, and based on the charts I'd say that in fact most people don't notice, don't care, don't know, or whatever. I'm just not bothering to pay attention to UMG products there any longer. There's enough other stuff to keep me busy, and it is just no fun there any longer. Hit and run. Sauve qui peut, as the Old Guard shouted as they legged it away from Waterloo.
In some ways the discussions about the boards, sound quality and poor service are side issues to the main question - distractors maybe. I still have concerns how much longer emusic will continue in its present form. The recent revamp must be to make it more saleable for the current owners, perhaps to prove that it can make sufficient profit as a subscription based service, whilst keeping backroom costs as low as possible, without too much impact on the bottom line. The current owners are only there for the profit they can take out of it from when they purchased it - that is what they as a company do. Therefore there can be no direct complaints about that - just the way they have gone about it. In our western economies there are lots of examples where bigger companies gradually take over the smaller companies in their sector, leading to two or three major players. We all know itunes and Amazon are the top two, both in Europe and USA. Can emusic become a major player or will one of them subsume it? We know what happened to Amie Street. To some extent the question must be about whether or not one of the two major players wants emusic. My money is still on itunes - they have a track record of taking over companies that offer them something different to expand into. A subscription service, maybe at a slight price reduction from mainstream prices, would suit them in their battle with Amazon, as it will tie buyers into them more, whilst giving them an extension of the range of music that they offer. What we can best hope for is that emusic actually decides that it can be a major player too and stay independent, possibly taking over or merging with other smaller companies to keep up and expand its market share.
Well, on the bright side, there's still an eMusic community.
Granted, it's a community united only by its hatred of eMusic, but still...
i doubt that's so. watching a small angry mob pile-on everywhere on emusic isn't strong evidence that there's only a community united by hatred of the site. it's evidence that there's at least a small angry mob determined to flood the boards and vandalize much of the site. i'd bet that if they somehow had the ability to slow down or obstruct the service so that no-one else could use it until their demands were satisfied, this group would immediately do it. emusic must learn!, or be taught a lesson!, and so on.
I still have concerns how much longer emusic will continue in its present form. The recent revamp must be to make it more saleable for the current owners, perhaps to prove that it can make sufficient profit as a subscription based service, whilst keeping backroom costs as low as possible, without too much impact on the bottom line.
i mean, this is certainly a possible motive, but it isn't the only one. apologies if i'm repeating myself here, but if i had to speculate, i'd guess that the largest community willing to support an indie-focused subscription-based music service is much lower than 400K -- emusic's subscriber base before and after the arrival of sony -- and not enough to allow a company like emusic to survive (e.g., one with a bunch of employees, office space in NYC, and substantial operating costs). i'd guess that much, maybe most, of that 400K base is made up of casual, mainstream pop music fans who subscribe, don't find what they like or enough of what they like, and cancel fairly quickly thereafter, replaced by other mainstream pop music fans who try the site, and so on and so on. those casual, mainstream fans allowed emusic to sustain itself, and essentially subsidized the cheap music made available to emusic's indie fan core. and maybe emusic saw that it couldn't continue that way if it wanted to survive in a market where amazon.com was poised to be a major supplier to mainstream pop music fans. so it reacted -- out of preceived necessity, or out of a desire to fulfill its understandable goals to expand, instead of furiously paddling to tread water.
is this a more plausible explanation? idk. i'd love to see what searches were most popular on emusic before (and even just after) sony's arrival -- not what downloads were most popular, but what artists were most often searched for. i'd bet the no. 1 answer is katy perry.
btw, the point you make about aime street is a good one. indie sites, or at least alternative sites to the major players (itunes and amazon.com), are falling dead along the roadside: aime street, lala, thinkindie, others. it's very hard to stay viable in this sector, and emusic's done it much better than most (reasonably robust subscriber base, securing reasonably robust gross income, and a 10-year track record).
@Daniel - I don't disagree with what you are saying. Personally I think we need a third, quite large, independent player in the downloadable music sector to keep the two big groups on their toes and to hopefully help keep costs not rising too much, and perhaps come down. A better emusic, in terms of customer experience, ought to be in that position, but I really wonder if that is actually what they want. If they did they would surely improve their service. I know it is highly debateable, but I do fear that they are trying to fatten up emusic ready for sale. If emusic does join or be taken over by either of the two big players it will be a sad day for the music industry. But this is of course all speculoation on my part...
yeah, it's possible. that would be sad. i can't see amazon.com buying emusic. a subscription base doesn't seem to mesh with amazon.com's overall business model, which covers far more than digital-music, and is all a la carte. itunes makes more sense, as between the two. and if it weren't for the fact that itunes bought lala, seemingly just to shut it down, i'd say there's little reason to think itunes would want emusic, either (you can actually make a good case that lala had technology -- cloud service -- that itunes wanted to acquire; emusic just has a nonsecret business model and a subscriber base (a base that may or may not overlap with itunes existing base of customers)).
i doubt that's so. watching a small angry mob pile-on everywhere on emusic isn't strong evidence that there's only a community united by hatred of the site. it's evidence that there's at least a small angry mob determined to flood the boards and vandalize much of the site.
It's hard to know what the barbarians at the gate represent, whether they are small, disgruntled group or representative of a widespread discontent. I think much of eMusic's dishonesty reveals that it is rather protective of its membership, perhaps feeling that it is far too volatile. The number of people who post on the message board may be but a small part of that customer base, but when the delays in response from customer service are taken into consideration, I'd assume that the disgruntlement is widespread.
To some extent the question must be about whether or not one of the two major players wants emusic. My money is still on itunes - they have a track record of taking over companies that offer them something different to expand into. A subscription service, maybe at a slight price reduction from mainstream prices, would suit them in their battle with Amazon, as it will tie buyers into them more, whilst giving them an extension of the range of music that they offer. What we can best hope for is that emusic actually decides that it can be a major player too and stay independent, possibly taking over or merging with other smaller companies to keep up and expand its market share.
I'm with Daniel on this one: I don't think there is anything special about a subscription service that would make it particularly attractive to either iTunes or Amazon. The membership is nothing to take likely: 400,000 people downloading 1-5 albums a month is difficult to keep (even if it's pathetic that eMu hasn't built upon it). The subscription model isn't something that neither company could workout without eMusic--perhaps they could even do it better without eMu. If one of them did acquire eMusic, it would be more on Amie's terms--traded for cash, so to speak.
The viability of eMusic or any service yet to come along will, IMO, depend more on the interests of smaller labels than on the nature of the competition. The actions of the "major indies" reveals their interest in working with some organization that will discount their product while maintaining decent payouts. Those labels were the mainstays of Amie as they are Amazon's daily DL. Amie's catastrophic demise is the only hint that a service of this type could not survive, but given the huge discounts that Amie offered (with 50% credit sales and street cred), it may have been a victim of its own cleverness rather than competition.
Comments
Haven't seen them either, and they are certainly steering clear of the audio issue.
i did reach out to him and wanted to make sure no hard feelings were in place and, btw, it wasn't moi - i was just watching along like gobs of other folks.
in any event, it turned out for the best - he and i found out quite a bit more - one to the other - and we're far better for the experience. it prodded me into getting in touch with nereffid as a by-product (huge bonus when you get down to weighing the additions to your life) and interplay with tim mason also came in stride shortly thereafter. i genuinely miss tim and really need to come to terms with re-connecting with nereffid's castle. writing at a larger level.
but i digress...
back on topic: those boards are beyond my reach and moderators are not for me...peace.
68
@bad thoughts: billy zoom, huh? he can rip it up and smile pretty at the same time...you can't see X and not come away with his image imprinted all over.
this might be a semi-full-time job over there these days.
I just hope they got a few laffs out of it!
However, I will say that their apparent strategy of waiting for everyone who objects to the recent service changes to cancel their subscriptions seems to be working. The tone being used by the people who have stuck around hasn't changed much, but the number of negative posts seems to be decreasing in proportion to the number of negative posters.
i have no idea if that's their strategy; i rather doubt it, tbh. but whatever, at this point, i hope the negative posters go away.
I certainly sympathize with your wanting to see the boards go back to being less divisive, but corporations rot from the head down, and the stench of that has long since reached the customers. You can blame the music industry for it to some degree, but not all of it. What eMu is suffering starts at the top, and having a few underlings call themselves "moderators" for a couple of days isn't going to change it one little bit.
i have no idea if this is true, but i doubt it.
my problem isn't so much wanting the boards to go back to being less divisive and more that i have a negative reaction to the tone of many of these complaints, which are childish, repetitive, self-congratulatory and i think grossly overstate the extent of their influence and numbers. to be clear, i'm not happy with all the on-site changes, either. but i got tired quickly of the nature of the banter.
i do miss exploring music, no doubt. and i need to figure out a way to have brighter put together a mix for me (mebbe 8 trax?) but on whole life w/out the belly-aching boards is a huge plus. i'll get around to exploring through last.fm once a few home projects get knocked out so life without emusic is simply an adjustment.
if the board is like dope to you i advise taking a week and have brighter, nereffid and elwood open up genres for you. since the great whack-back (I and II) there's less "time" to explore and more to board...getting back to the fundamentals is tough, but less board is the way to go
that's what i've done. one time recently i said something about it, which ended with a "time is up!," "emusic must be taught a lesson!"-type response. beyond that, i've ignored it, and actually for the most part withdrawn from the emusic board entirely.
I guess my only real point here is don't get your hopes up - I don't believe enough people will put in the necessary effort, given the extent of the damage to eMu's reputation, goodwill, credibility, etc. What I do believe is that it actually takes more effort to discuss music intelligently than to gripe and complain about corporate misbehavior. What's more, the people griping about what's happened to eMu are not "trolls" or even a squeaky-wheel minority - they're customers, they belong there, and eMu caused this, not them.
this is more true now, but it wasn't the case, say, a month ago. at that point, it was a small group determined to clog up everything on the boards, and interrupt other people's discussions, to force their agenda -- and only their agenda -- to the front. as i think i said before, it was like you're having dinner with a friend at a restaurant, and someone runs up to your table and starts waiving their arms frantically, demanding that you pay attention only to them and their gripes.
How on earth do you make the decision to offer a lower-quality product than every last one of your competitors? Hope most people don't notice, I guess.
They won't tell you went your month is up.
eMordac has turned into a very pleasant company.
Granted, it's a community united only by its hatred of eMusic, but still...
i doubt that's so. watching a small angry mob pile-on everywhere on emusic isn't strong evidence that there's only a community united by hatred of the site. it's evidence that there's at least a small angry mob determined to flood the boards and vandalize much of the site. i'd bet that if they somehow had the ability to slow down or obstruct the service so that no-one else could use it until their demands were satisfied, this group would immediately do it. emusic must learn!, or be taught a lesson!, and so on.
i mean, this is certainly a possible motive, but it isn't the only one. apologies if i'm repeating myself here, but if i had to speculate, i'd guess that the largest community willing to support an indie-focused subscription-based music service is much lower than 400K -- emusic's subscriber base before and after the arrival of sony -- and not enough to allow a company like emusic to survive (e.g., one with a bunch of employees, office space in NYC, and substantial operating costs). i'd guess that much, maybe most, of that 400K base is made up of casual, mainstream pop music fans who subscribe, don't find what they like or enough of what they like, and cancel fairly quickly thereafter, replaced by other mainstream pop music fans who try the site, and so on and so on. those casual, mainstream fans allowed emusic to sustain itself, and essentially subsidized the cheap music made available to emusic's indie fan core. and maybe emusic saw that it couldn't continue that way if it wanted to survive in a market where amazon.com was poised to be a major supplier to mainstream pop music fans. so it reacted -- out of preceived necessity, or out of a desire to fulfill its understandable goals to expand, instead of furiously paddling to tread water.
is this a more plausible explanation? idk. i'd love to see what searches were most popular on emusic before (and even just after) sony's arrival -- not what downloads were most popular, but what artists were most often searched for. i'd bet the no. 1 answer is katy perry.
btw, the point you make about aime street is a good one. indie sites, or at least alternative sites to the major players (itunes and amazon.com), are falling dead along the roadside: aime street, lala, thinkindie, others. it's very hard to stay viable in this sector, and emusic's done it much better than most (reasonably robust subscriber base, securing reasonably robust gross income, and a 10-year track record).
I'm with Daniel on this one: I don't think there is anything special about a subscription service that would make it particularly attractive to either iTunes or Amazon. The membership is nothing to take likely: 400,000 people downloading 1-5 albums a month is difficult to keep (even if it's pathetic that eMu hasn't built upon it). The subscription model isn't something that neither company could workout without eMusic--perhaps they could even do it better without eMu. If one of them did acquire eMusic, it would be more on Amie's terms--traded for cash, so to speak.
The viability of eMusic or any service yet to come along will, IMO, depend more on the interests of smaller labels than on the nature of the competition. The actions of the "major indies" reveals their interest in working with some organization that will discount their product while maintaining decent payouts. Those labels were the mainstays of Amie as they are Amazon's daily DL. Amie's catastrophic demise is the only hint that a service of this type could not survive, but given the huge discounts that Amie offered (with 50% credit sales and street cred), it may have been a victim of its own cleverness rather than competition.