Where do I go now?

greg

Backstory - Just before Christmas Groupon UK had a special deal on 6 month emusic plans. For £18 you could download 25 tracks a month over a 6 month period. That works out at 12p a track (about 15 cents), with their 30p bonus per track then added to make the standard 42p track price. Although it is primarily to attract new members I thought I'd use it and stop my normal plan for those 6 months, so I bought 5 packs - giving 125 tracks a month. But I've decided to keep my normal plan going so that I can catch up on my SFL but also to increase the albums I have in genres that I am beginning to develop an interest. I am sure that we will soon have to pay more in the EU when we get the majors, so now is the time to do it.

The result is that I want to expand my jazz collection. Any ideas/recommendations welcome please? I have a number of John Coltrane and Miles Davis albums already, plus a couple by Stan Getz and one or to others of that era. I like the James Hamilton recent releases off Bandcamp, and I have a few others, mainly British, from the last few years - Tim Garland and Joel Purnell spring to mind. As I am writing this I am playing Nickel and Brass Septet, which I enjoy. So that will give some idea of my interests, but I am happy to try new things too.

Being in the UK I cannot download anything from UMG or Sony, but generally there is much from pre 1960 available, as copyright laws are different in Europe (currently 50 years)

Thanks in advance, I am looking forward to some great ideas

kargatron

There are several relevant threads on the emu message boards to browse. Of course it's a huge subject - do you want a historical focus, say representative records from each era? Or do you just want a few albums that will please you, and provide potential seeds for future expansion? Do you have instrumentation in mind you prefer?

Here's a decent online jazz history, with pointers to recordings.

For eMusic, first, there's eMusic Jazz Dozens

Threads:
Starting a jazz collection
Newbish trip thru jazz
Educate Me
Jazz Listening Club
Gimme 10 tracks - Jazz

greg

Thanks for that start Kargatron. I suppose I'm looking for albums that please me and will lead me further. I have a particular leaning towards the saxophone - hence John Coltrane. My father played it (still does to some extent even though he is 90) so it has always been an instrument I've liked. From one of the links I came across a Jazz Top 100. I was pleased to see I'd already got 5 of the top 6, but it declined from then on, with only about another 4 or 5 from the remainderof the list. So I'll be trying out some others from it, as well as following up other links. I must admit I hadn't thought of the emusic Dozens. I tend to ignore them because often many are not available to me, but it ought to be different with jazz

kargatron

Definitely browse the 'gimme 10 tracks' thread - besides lots of cherrypicked good tracks, it would serve as a good way to quickly browse a lot of names.

Here's a thread on favorite tenor players from JazzCorner forum members, browse those lists for recurring pointers.

jonahpwll

Here's some modern day players that are available on emu that I really enjoy. I've provided links to their respective emusers or AllAboutJazz threads, and these threads will have links to artist sites/myspace/retail sellers.

Warning: Many of these threads were written back in the old Download days, before the pricing structure changes, so some may be better deals now and some not as good. For instance, on the Matthew Halsall below, you should probably look at his cost on 7Digital first, etc.

If you like the Coltrane sound, Nate Birchall is a great start...
http://www.emusers.net/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=545&page=1#Item_2

Trumpet guy Matthew Halsall, who collaborates with Birchall, has a wonderful sound...
http://www.emusers.net/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=547&page=1#Item_10

Some Big Band/Large Ensemble that I really enjoy...
Thomas Barber's Janus Bloc
http://www.emusers.net/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=912
Darcy James Argue's Secret Society
http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=36925&highlight=darcy+james+argue
http://www.emusic.com/album/Darcy-James-Argue-s-Secret-Society-DARCY-JAMES-ARGUE-S-SECRET-SOCIETY-Infernal-Machi-MP3-Download/11687987.html
Guillermo Klein
http://www.sunnysiderecords.com/release_detail.php?releaseID=410
Dave Chisholm
http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=44789&highlight=chisholm

An older players/albums you may want to look into are those of Joe Henderson. He's a tenor guy that may have appeal to you as a Coltrane fan. A lot of Henderson's best work was on the BlueNote label, but he had some good stuff on Milestone, like Power to the People, here, for three and a half bucks...
http://www.emusic.com/album/Joe-Henderson-Power-To-The-People-MP3-Download/11557667.html
...and Tetragon, same price...
http://www.emusic.com/album/Joe-Henderson-Tetragon-MP3-Download/11437661.html

Also, another older tenor man is Clifford Jordan, who's excellent live performance Night of the Mark VII is on emu...
http://www.emusic.com/album/Clifford-Jordan-Night-of-the-Mark-VII-MP3-Download/11829690.html
...it's one of my all-time favorite albums. It's six bucks on emu, and depending on your shopping alternatives, you might be able to find the album used or new for a comparable price as it's now been issued on three different labels (Muse, 32jazz, Savoy).

I'm gonna stop there for now. I don't want to overwhelm you with a huge(r) list. But as you hear something that sounds good or close to it and want further or better recs, just drop a post on the thread. Instead of a list, you may prefer a if-you-like-this-then-give-this-a-try kind of approach.

With this kind of thing, there's this perpetual contraction-expansion pattern to the process.

Cheers.

thomnottom

It's probably in one of the threads that kargatron listed, as I know I got from those boards, but I'll just point it out directly:

Kenny Burrell & John Coltrane

This falls under the "I don't know what makes jazz great, but this is great jazz" category for me. I hold it up as probably the best rec I ever got on eMu.

Also, not sure which Stan Getz you have, but everyone should have a copy of Getz/Gilberto.

kargatron

If you like the Coltrane sound, Nate Birchall is a great start...

I disagree here - for someone in Greg's position, I think it's better to investigate consensus choices - there's a lot more utility to that approach in terms of learning more about the context of jazz and its development, following through on connections, etc. Nate Birchall is more of a pet favorite of yours - greg may perfectly well like it, but I think he's better off going with players that have a strong place in jazz history. (For my tastes, Birchall sounds too derivative of Coltrane.)

You can't go wrong investigating the names listed under 'Similar artists' on Coltrane's allmusic page. My personal recommendation for a Coltrane-influenced tenor would be Billy Harper (who has a nice bunch of records cheap on Amazon), but still, I think sampling the consensus historical greats of the music might have higher utility for someone investigating the genre as a newcomer.

greg

Interesting discussion!! I'll check out both Nate Birchall and Billy Harper - I'll ley you know what I think later

Thom - I have Sweet Rain plus a double CD Best of Stan Getz set, so a few of the Getz/Gilberto were on that, but overall quality was not good, so I have purchased from Amazon UK - currently playing it

jonahpwll

@Karg

Billy Harper is a nice rec, too.

What Greg will find are a ton of people rec'ing things that were recorded 40-50 years ago. I'm trying to suggest some current musicians to provide a bit of balance. Besides, listening to music being made today isn't exactly going to retard the listening process for him. And while having an understanding of an album in the historical context of the jazz continuum is a nice thing, but it's also, IMO, one of the things that turns people off on exploring jazz in the first place, like there's some sort of instructional video a listener needs to watch before getting their Jazz visitor pass. The guy has a bunch of emu accounts to burn through; let's rec some jazz that we like and save the lesson plan for another thread.

Also, keep in mind, he's looking for stuff he can use his emu account on. Many of the best albums from players that have a strong place in jazz history aren't going to be available to him on emu, since nobody gets BlueNote, and he won't get Impulse, Sony, ECM, Verve, and, hm, Greg do you get OJC where you're at? The Chrono Classics are gone. And, actually, maybe you do get ECM because it's not distributed in Europe through UMG. There's the comment he made about the pre-1960 being available, but I'm not sure what albums that's gonna comprise, if I'm right in assuming it's non-traditional labels doing the reissuing. Hard to know for certain what is available to Greg on his emu account, but I'm betting that the best of what's available to him on emu is more likely made in this century than last. But I could be wrong about that.

As far as Birchall, he is an excellent player who has put out two albums that arguably could've been included in the top ten of their respective years and played on two albums (Halsall) that also deserved recognition as top tens in their respective years. Coltrane is one of my favorite jazz musicians and Birchall excites my ears in much the same way. So, yes, that's why Birchall is a favorite of mine. I'm not sure what a pet favorite is though. I am sure that the only utility that really matters when you boil it all down is whether the music speaks to you. I think Birchall has a voice worth rec'ing.

greg

I've just downloaded Soul of an Angel by Billy Harper and Nat Birchall's Guiding Spirit. I'll let you know how I get one. Emusic do have ECM in Europe. Anything pre 1960 is out of copyright here, so most major artists, of all genre, are available on emusic. I'd prefer as far as possible to get from emusic, as, as I said above, I have purchased some amazingly cheap download vouchers. They are trying to pull new customers in now but I can't see the good times of cheap emusic downloads lasting for long here as we have been promised the majors in 2011, so I'm trying to build my jazz collection now rather than later. But I am happy to buy a few things elsewhere.

Germanprof

Lurk...borrow...lurk...

thomnottom

Billy Harper - Black Saint
Pat Metheny - Bright Size Life
Pat Metheny - Watercolors

I'm pretty sure all 3 are on eMusic in the UK. I'm not doing any links because I'm 90% sure that they won't work for you.

For something a little more modern, check out Charlie Hunter & Bobby Previte's Come In Red Dog, This Is Tango Leader and Nomo's Ghost Rock (although the latter may not be considered jazz by all). I've become a big fan of Charlie Hunter's 8-string playing and really love Baboon Strength in particular among his solo work. He has some mp3s available on his website. Nomo fits into the nu-jazz/afro-beat/maybe electronic category.

kargatron

What Greg will find are a ton of people rec'ing things that were recorded 40-50 years ago.... let's rec some jazz that we like and save the lesson plan for another thread. ... I am sure that the only utility that really matters when you boil it all down is whether the music speaks to you.

I think we just have a significantly different take on the matter. I think in requests like these, personal advocacy is overrated; people's ears are not the same, and I don't think people should assume otherwise. That some music speaks to you is far from the potential utility to another of recommendations that come from tens of people, or the consensus of thousands. That's why my responses to these are chiefly pointers to collections of opinions. I grant that they take more effort to parse, and maybe that's a functional argument against my response (the links don't do any good if they aren't clicked and browsed). (And I don't negate the power of personal advocacy either - one of my favorite threads on emu I started was Evangelize One Artist Here, but I just don't think that's a great way to start investigating a genre.)

I also don't think that the dominant pattern of recommendations from the threads I pointed to are recorded 40-50 years ago - my impression is that there's quite a good balance of historical and contemporary throughout.

thom:

check out Charlie Hunter & Bobby Previte

Bobby Previte has a great bandcamp site where you can stream quite a few of his albums, including several from a tour of the Coalition of the Willing band with Hunter. Good stuff. He's a great composer and drummer.

greg

Thanks for the suggestions and apologies for taking so long to reply. I've had internet problens since the day after I started this thread. It has been off much more than on, and when I did get it it was low powered. It seems back to normal now, hopefully. I downloaded both Billy Harper's Soul of an Angel and and Nat Birchall's Guiding Spirit. I liked both and will download some more from both artists, now that I have an internet speed that I can download with. I'll also be following up some more of the suggestions over the next few days. So thanks again for all your suggestions -there is plenty here to keep me going, but I'm happy to receive more recommendation. And Jonahpwll, I really like Ellipsis's Edge Hill. I've downloaded the Harvest concert, although I have yet to play it, and I'll probably get some more. .

denver

With due respect to what Jonahpwll says about the problems of music more than 50 years old, if greg likes saxophone let me suggest the album Tenor Madness, on which Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane go head to head on the title track. Emu has it, at least here.

Greg, I'm jealous. I get Groupon emails and afaik they haven't offered anything like that here.

jonahpwll

Don't get me wrong, I think some recs from past albums should definitely be part of the menu. I only wanted to add something current, in addition to recognizing that many of the past greats aren't on emusic. But, hey, I rec'd some old Joe Henderson and Clifford Jordan in my initial post. If there's other essential older albums that are available to Greg on his emu account, don't hesitate to make them.

And, yes, I also am jealous of having emu dls to burn.

greg

It is the second time I've got some 6 month emusic vouchers from Groupon in the UK - last time I had 2, but this time I got 5 at 25 tracks each monthly for six months, as they were ridiculously cheap. I suspect they are trying to draw people in as loss leaders before we get the majors and prices really start going up. I decided that I ought to make the most of it whilst I can! In general I must admit I am happier going for newer things, but also very content to go for the key artists of the past, because I also want to know a bit about the development of jazz

kargatron

Greg, in in the WAYLT thread, you noted wanting more Benny Golson. He's a great player, and there's plenty to check out. But a great place to continue is this all-around-excellent 1959 release from trombonist Curtis Fuller: Blues-Ette on Savoy. A real winner (cheap too), and iirc Golson shines on it. That album forms the basis of the subsequent and well-known Jazztet with Art Farmer.

]

greg

Thanks I will follow that up. I have been going through the (small) jazz sections at my two nearest libraries, and I just came upon Benny Golson by chance. The cover looked intersting (sax player!) so I decide d to give it a go - liked it a lot.

Edit - followed up the link but not available in the UK, but the Complete Savoy Recordings are available, including that alum. So I'll probably just download those tracks - fortunately none are over ten minutes long so I don't have to download all 3 CDs

kargatron

Greg, I'm curious - you've posted loads of jazz in the WAYLT threads since you posted this thread - how much of it was acquired since then vs stuff you already had? For someone who kind of positioned themselves as a newbie at the time, you certainly seem to have thrown yourself headfirst into the genre, or did you perhaps have more previous background in jazz than I'd gathered from above?

greg

At least 85%, probably more is new. Before I had a few key CDs - Kind of Blue, Take Five and similar plus a couple by British artists - Joel Parnell and Tim Garland - that I'd always liked. I've borrowed quite a lot from my local library in the last three or four weeks - especially John Coltrane but a number of other artists too. Also as I explained in my original message I have a lot of downloads per month at the moment that I got very cheaply from Groupon, so my intention was to download jazz during the six months that these run for. I think that jazz has always been a latent interest that was there but never really explored - my 90 year old father still plays his saxophone, although he is more into swing, he has a few jazz CDs that I've liked. In November I retired from work full-time so now work just 2 days or so each week, which also gives me time to explore and listen. And if I have something new I want to listen to it at least once, ususlly more. Part of my problem was not knowing where to go other than the very major artists. I really didn't have much of a clue where to start. I've now got the confidence to try things that I didn't before, through the ideas from both you and jonahpwll. Just listening to the music a lot has helped me know more what I like. Even in the last two or three weeks my tastes have broadened considerably just through playing the music.

edit - Thinking about it, I suppose I've always liked big band type music - including jazz rock like Chicago, Jamaica Jazz All Stars, and so on. So in some ways moving into jazz is an extension (not the right word but I can't think of anything better) of that interest And as a child/teenager my father played a fair bit of Miller, Basie, Duke Ellington... and similar. At the time it meant nothing to me, I was listening to The Beatles and all the music you'd describe as British Invasion, but something must have sunk in somewhere.

jonahpwll

Greg,

If you're looking for some big band/large ensemble stuff, here's a few that have been grabbing my ears lately...

Emil Brandqvist Orkester - "Sma Rum"

Guillermo Klein - "Una Nave", though Filtros or Domador or anything by him is great, too.

Michel Godard et al - "Terre Lontane"

Pasquale Mega Ensemble - "Coloriade"

Also, someone worth checking out, both for his big band/large ensemble work, but also for his solo and small ensemble recordings is Abdullah Ibrahim (also known as Dollar Brand, before the name change). He's one of the most amazing piano players who's ever lived and his discography is a goldmine of great music...
http://www.emusic.com/artist/Abdullah-Ibrahim-MP3-Download/10555610.html

And a last one on big bands... I'm not a huge fan, but a lot of people really like Dave Liebman's Big Band...
http://www.emusic.com/album/The-Dave-Liebman-Big-Band-The-Dave-Liebman-Big-Band-Live-As-Always-MP3-Download/12050368.html
There might be other Liebman big band albums on emu. That search result looked kinda ugly.

Good hunting!

kargatron

Greg, don't forget to check out the Darcy James Argue pointer above, and here's a large ensemble recording I really love:

John Hollenbeck Large Ensemble - Eternal Interlude (youtube performance of "Foreign One", his reworking of Monk's "Four In One")

I also really like Andy Emler's Megaoctet, which has only one album on emu now: Dreams In Tune, not my favorite of theirs, but good. Here's a youtube performance excerpt.