@kargatron, many thanks, that's at the high end of what I was going to pay for this component but it does look like a good deal. Just hit "buy now". Now I just need to figure out the amp/receiver piece.
Gp, this also may be at the high end of what you're hoping for, but this NAD integrated amp for $380 would probably do you right, and leave you looking at the $400ish limit for speakers given your $1000 upper end.
@kargatron, I'm actually thinking of going a bit higher on the speakers. Right now I've got my eye on these for $300 the pair and, if I can possibly stretch to it, this to go with them - that would set me up in speakers for a good while to come. That would be $700 on the speakers, which with that CD player would mean I've spent most of the budget without the amp, so obviously I'm hoping to stretch just a bit further than $1000 - if I could find a good deal on an amp for a couple of hundred that would be ideal for now in $ terms. No tearing hurry either - took the plunge on the CD player because it was time limited.
An amp for ~$200 might be a bit sketchy - one thing to consider is without the subwoofer (and with an amp, of course), you'll have a stereo you enjoy plenty, and adding a subwoofer will just improve that, so perhaps is inherently lower priority (i.e. it can always be added later, and add that improvement when you can afford it). But your plans seem solid. One more comment is that you'll probably not replace anything you get for quite a while, so stretching at the beginning may seem like more than you want to spend, but pro-rated over time, probably makes economic sense.
Yes, that's right. Even if the kit lasts 10 years, it's still less per year than I spend on frustration at emusic. Of course there's still the issue of present cashflow, exacerbated by the recent furnace demise and replacement. But I do want to try to stretch to where it's worth it, even if it then takes me a few months to assemble everything.
I do feel like with the amp piece that's the piece I don't even really understand at this point, and get quickly bewildered by all the talk of amps and receivers and DACs and inputs and outputs and so on. At least with the CD player and speakers I have a pretty clear idea of what they do. So I feel like I need to do more learning on the middle piece so that I have some conception of what I am actually buying and why.
I read a review on amazon that said that an un-amplified signal can actually damage speakers - not sure if that's true or why that would be, but something to be aware of.
Gp, sounds like for your use, an "integrated amplifier" (basically, an amp that has volume and input-selector controls) is what you want. The main thing about an amp is wanting a nice strong signal that doesn't distort on the high power end - amps that deliver clean power across all levels. Distortion is what damages speakers, not "too much power". That's basically where the "quality" aspect comes in, and where you'd want to focus your review-searches on. I wouldn't worry too much about discussion of the "sound" of an amp - there's much less variance there than in speakers, so take such discussion with a grain of salt. Reliable manufacturers of int. amps include NAD, Creek, Music Hall, others, too.
Wow, this is another world. I was just on a site that invited me to join the buyers club to gain access to all the brands of amps they carry. For $299.00. To be allowed to see the catalog.
For inputs, there's only two kinds - line level and phono. Phono requires a pre-amp stage (internal if the amp includes such an input) because phono outputs are much lower level the the line level of other components, like cd players. Otherwise there's nothing special about the inputs. They're just the same, labeled with 'cd', 'tuner', 'aux 1', 'aux 2', etc. Doesn't matter what you plug into them, including mp3 players (for which there's usually only a earphone ouput, for which you'd use a y-jack cable). But never put a line level input into a phono input!
Some (e.g. here) mention special ports for ipod docks. Not sure how big an advantage that would be over just connecting to a regular input, except for charging.
Yeah, I doubt it's a big deal (and you evidently need some Yamaha dock to go with it), but it seems kinda cool. That int amp probably would suit you quite well - I'd guess the $300-400 used range will get you what you need, and <$300 would be harder to find or less reliable.
Y'know what...by the time shipping's added, that Yamaha one's essentially the same price at Amazon (with free shipping). Can probably use some visa points to bring it down a bit there too. That takes the pressure of "should I buy one of these before the unique listing disappears" off a bit.
ETA: also the guy from whom I just bought the CD player, who is a business, started quoting me discount prices on Marantz amps under $400. Seems like you're right, kargatron (not that I doubted you particularly) - $350-$400 is the tipping point.
The guy wanted to sell me the Marantz SR4023 for $395 (RRP $499). The other one I've been looking at is the Yamaha A-S500BL (Amazon $399, RRP $449). What would be the most meaningful things I should be comparing here? (not that I've necessarily decided those are the only two choices, but maybe they are a good place to start learning). The Marantz is a "receiver", the Yamaha is an "integrated amplifier".
From a non-expert, I have an old Yamaha receiver, and the volume is controlled by up and down buttons rather than a turnable knob, but often one button push up or down is too much, and I end up having to fiddle with equalizers; I don't know if anything your looking at has buttons, but I'd always go for knobs.
@amclark2, yes, I much prefer knobs as well.
In case anyone else gets on this learning curve, this review gave me a clear explanation of the difference between receiver and integrated amp.
@amclark2: The Sony speakers that have the warning about low-powered amps are probably very inefficient, such that say a 20 watt amp, would be clipping when playing at a reasonable volume. Clipping produces lots of sustained high-frequency energy that can overload the tweeters*. An unamplified signal (e.g. line level) wouldn't do a thing and I doubt you could hurt any bookshelf speaker with an iPod headphone output, no matter how badly it was clipping.
*This refers to solid-state amps. A solid-state amp produces what is called "hard" clipping: The waveform has a flat top (hence "clipping"). Tube amps on the other hand don't cut off the waveform sharply, they squash it. This is still called clipping but it doesn't have anywhere near the high frequency content that the hard cutoff of the solid-state amp produces.
One more question: is there any reason to lean towards or away from matching brands across components?
Right now, I have a Marantz CD player on its way, am leaning toward a Yamaha integrated amplifier (over a similarly priced Marantz receiver), and I still fancy some Hsu speakers (with a question mark about whether I can afford the Hsu subwoofer in addition to the Hsu bookshelf speakers).
Both the fact that Hsu subwoofers seem to have a formidable reputation (and an impressive warranty) and the fact that they say their bookshelf speakers and subwoofers were designed to complement one another is leaning me toward trying to swing both. I'm seeing comments in some subwoofer reviews about how well the bass blends with the rest of the sound range from other speakers, or not - that's making me a little wary about mixing and matching; on the other hand I suspect there's a lot of stuff in those reviews that it would take a trained ear to detect.
* Is my lean towards matching the speakers and sub sensible or am I believing the marketing too much?
* Are there any reasons I should be hesitating to lean away from a pair of Marantz components and towards a Marantz and a Yamaha?
(I will only get to do this once for the foreseeable future, so am trying to be circumspect)
Matching brands across speakers makes sense, because subs and speakers from a particular manufacturer are designed to work together. As for components, mixing and matching should make no difference as long as you're dealing with reputable brands. If you have two integrated amplifiers of equivalent quality, a Marantz and a Yamaha, then a Marantz CD player should sound the same with both.
I have friends who are serious audiophiles and easily spend more on cables than I did on my whole system. They all mix and match components but typically use speakers from one manufacturer. I don't pretend to be an audiophile, but that makes sense to me.
OK, that confirms my gradually-becoming-not-quite-totally-ignorant hunches. Many thanks. Is there a favored brand of budget cables for folk who don't want to spend more on the cables than others do on the system? Someone told me Monster cables were over priced and not that great.
Monster cables are overpriced and not that great IMO. I'm not a believer at all in the idea that esoteric, expensive cables make an audible difference in most systems. If your system costs more than your car, then it probably makes sense to drop a little extra on the interconnects. For most people, including me, any decent cable works fine. The longer the cable, the greater the possibility that a cheap one will have a negative impact, but anything six feet or less shouldn't be an issue. Amazon has lots to choose from. For HDMI connections, I've had good luck with these Mediabridge cables. With cables, though, YMMV is an understatement, and you will find opinions all over the map.
OK, I'll just set a budget and see what looks OK then. I'm actually fairly likely to figure out what cables I need as I'm setting the thing up, which means I am also quite likely to go to a store for them. Thanks for all the help.
Gp, look forward to your initial listening reports. What did you go with, the Yamaha amp, Hsu speakers + sub, Marantz cd? Can't imagine you won't be pleased, though I don't recall what you're moving from. Congrats on getting it all done, buying equipment can be a bit of an obsessive hassle.
Yes, I ordered the Yamaha a-s500 amp, the Marantz CD 5004, a pair of the Hsu HB-1 MK2 bookshelf speakers, and the Hsu VTF1 (which is on sale and so come down nearly to the STF series prices.) It stretched over my initial budget, but once I was committed to components at a certain level it made sense to have the whole system sing a similar tune, as it were, and I expect this to be the last upgrade for quite a while.
I'm moving up from a small Phillips 2-speaker bookshelf system that I got maybe 6 or 7 years ago for about $130 from Best Buy. One step up from the boomboxes. It has been excellent value for money, and actually did not sound half bad, but the upgrade this time is pretty significant. I've always wanted to own a decent hifi one day, and would still be waiting for the kids to graduate before doing so if I hadn't received some money that was to be spent on something special.
Ok, knowing that, I'm confident you will love your new system. Congrats and enjoy. Pay attention to the room and setup though. Arrange your room around your stereo, if you can. Pay attention to symmetry (wall reflections, etc) and openness around the speaker placement.
Well, everything is here now. I haven't had time yet to play with crossovers, phases, precise positioning etc so there's probably some tweaking to do. But so far it sounds amazing. It just posted about it on the 'what are you listening to now' thread. Some recordings are like whole new albums. Many thanks again to those who helped me with tips here. I am a very, very happy camper right now.
Comments
- Sounds fantastic
And my turntable, a Dual 1219, manufactured: 1970-72 - from my ancestral heritance:
ETA: With a Stanton pickup.
I do feel like with the amp piece that's the piece I don't even really understand at this point, and get quickly bewildered by all the talk of amps and receivers and DACs and inputs and outputs and so on. At least with the CD player and speakers I have a pretty clear idea of what they do. So I feel like I need to do more learning on the middle piece so that I have some conception of what I am actually buying and why.
ETA: also the guy from whom I just bought the CD player, who is a business, started quoting me discount prices on Marantz amps under $400. Seems like you're right, kargatron (not that I doubted you particularly) - $350-$400 is the tipping point.
The guy wanted to sell me the Marantz SR4023 for $395 (RRP $499). The other one I've been looking at is the Yamaha A-S500BL (Amazon $399, RRP $449). What would be the most meaningful things I should be comparing here? (not that I've necessarily decided those are the only two choices, but maybe they are a good place to start learning). The Marantz is a "receiver", the Yamaha is an "integrated amplifier".
In case anyone else gets on this learning curve, this review gave me a clear explanation of the difference between receiver and integrated amp.
*This refers to solid-state amps. A solid-state amp produces what is called "hard" clipping: The waveform has a flat top (hence "clipping"). Tube amps on the other hand don't cut off the waveform sharply, they squash it. This is still called clipping but it doesn't have anywhere near the high frequency content that the hard cutoff of the solid-state amp produces.
Right now, I have a Marantz CD player on its way, am leaning toward a Yamaha integrated amplifier (over a similarly priced Marantz receiver), and I still fancy some Hsu speakers (with a question mark about whether I can afford the Hsu subwoofer in addition to the Hsu bookshelf speakers).
Both the fact that Hsu subwoofers seem to have a formidable reputation (and an impressive warranty) and the fact that they say their bookshelf speakers and subwoofers were designed to complement one another is leaning me toward trying to swing both. I'm seeing comments in some subwoofer reviews about how well the bass blends with the rest of the sound range from other speakers, or not - that's making me a little wary about mixing and matching; on the other hand I suspect there's a lot of stuff in those reviews that it would take a trained ear to detect.
* Is my lean towards matching the speakers and sub sensible or am I believing the marketing too much?
* Are there any reasons I should be hesitating to lean away from a pair of Marantz components and towards a Marantz and a Yamaha?
(I will only get to do this once for the foreseeable future, so am trying to be circumspect)
I have friends who are serious audiophiles and easily spend more on cables than I did on my whole system. They all mix and match components but typically use speakers from one manufacturer. I don't pretend to be an audiophile, but that makes sense to me.
I'm moving up from a small Phillips 2-speaker bookshelf system that I got maybe 6 or 7 years ago for about $130 from Best Buy. One step up from the boomboxes. It has been excellent value for money, and actually did not sound half bad, but the upgrade this time is pretty significant. I've always wanted to own a decent hifi one day, and would still be waiting for the kids to graduate before doing so if I hadn't received some money that was to be spent on something special.