@Craig, useful to know it's not just me. I've found the early sections off-putting due to the ill-informed or tendentious rhetorical posing along the lines of 'philosophy is dead, theologians don't know anything about recent science, nobody is as rational as we are' - all basically tendentious claptrap. When you choose all your examples of theistic models from writers in centuries long past and compare them with physics examples taken from the last decade or so (while being sure not to mention any work that is actually current outside of physics) it's not that hard to win rhetorical points of the see-how-modern-and-rational-I-am variety, but showing that your physics is better than Aristotle's or Augustine's is hardly impressive.
@Daniel: a few years ago I read The Corrections, and then tried to get my wife to read it; she threw it down in disgust leas then halfway through and said "He doesn't like his characters." Which I thought was fantastic, and has stuck with me ever since. I now have a very hard time reading anyone who doesn't like their characters. It applies to tv too, for example, it's why I like Parks and Rec more than Community; those Parks and Rec people love their characters. Fwiw.
Eta: I also can't see Franzen's name without thinking of the Simpsons episode with the literary convention and the stoner in the back shouting "Franzone!"
for me, it was hard because i picked it up after finishing marlon james' the book of night women, which had such a strong voice and perspective that it was hard pivoting to anything, much less a book with a contemporary, straightforward, and frankly flat narrative voice. but finally the big blowup between the main couple and their son toward the end of freedom's first 100 pages drew my attention.
Ain't that the truth, and it just gets better. Having waited three years between AFOC and volume 5 A Dance With Dragons (at least I didn't wait 5 or 6 years like people who had started earlier) I have some opinions as to the necessity or value of many of the myriad characters/storylines introduced in those two volumes which I'll not make explicit for the possibility of Spoiler content, but I pretty much feel that significant amounts were wandering drivel that contributed little and that the two could have been condensed into one slightly longer novel with little ill effect and for the better. Curious to hear if anyone else who's read all of them feels the same, and I'll just state that some of my frustration stems from how good I thought the first three books were.
Not reading yet, but will be soon. Incredibly, this is currently priced at about 6 bucks on Amazon. Anyone who's interested in in the history of WWII, especially the homefront, should snag it. The first volume (actually 2 vols) covering the war cartoons is indispensable.
ETA: interview with Mauldin's biographer and editor of the collections here.
GP, if you'd care for a book with a less tendentious comparative approach towards physics and religion/philosophy I would highly recommend The Tao Of Physics by Fritjof Capra. If anything the physics will be behind the times perhaps, although I see there is now a 35th Anniversary release which may contain some update (gol, has it been that long?). Anyhow, it for me is an apt exploration of how science need not be exclusive of theology/philosophy. While not in any formal sense I consider myself a deeply religious person and a student of science, so I liked it a lot.
@BDB, thanks, the title is familiar, I'll add it to the list. I picked up the Hawking mainly because I was looking for something to read on the plane and thought it might tell me some things I didn't know. I'm thinking of maybe taking a look at Keith Ward's new one, More than Matter?, but it's a somewhat idle side-interest really. I occasionally read something in this area just to be vaguely current, but it's not a big priority at the moment.
Re: A Song of Ice and Fire.
The books hadn't been high on my radar and I didn't get a chance to see the TV show when it was first on, and when A Dance with Dragons came out there seemed to be so much disappointment and anger directed towards it that I decided never to bother with the books. But at Christmas, faced with a rare amount of spare time, I decided to give the first book a shot. Three months later, I've just finished Dance.
I know exactly where people are coming from with their frustration over DwD, given that many readers have had to wait 11 years for any advance in certain plotlines, and those plotlines don't necessarily advance very far. Obviously having read them in such a short time I didn't have that problem, but yes, the last 2 books do sprawl a bit and don't give much payoff in terms of major events. But always I had the sense of Feast and Dance being the "middle game" after a very long and brilliant opening, with all the pieces (yes, including extra ones nobody realised were in the game) being carefully maneuvered into key positions. Maybe Martin is a bit too in love with all the fine details of his world and can't resist all the embellishments, but that's certainly part of the appeal for me.
@BDB "Curious to hear if anyone else who's read all of them feels the same, and I'll just state that some of my frustration stems from how good I thought the first three books were"
I have one more to go, and I think that if I knew then what I knew now, I would not have started the series. But then I feel that way about most long fantasy series I read. They start strong then seem to lose track of the story. With Game of Thrones, once I get to liking a character, they are horribly slaughtered before my eyes. Sometimes you just learn they have died without knowing the details. (I guess that is a bit like real life?) I think Martin should have wrapped things up with book three, let a good guy win, etc.
See, I really don't look on ASOIAF as a story about good guys vs bad guys, more as an attempt to present a detailed history of a particular set of events in a fictional world. So although it's shocking when someone is killed unexpectedly, that's the sort of thing that can happen in real history. Actually I'd say that although the overall body count is very high, the body count among the more significant characters is (relatively) low. And when you look back at the key deaths you'll notice that in terms of plotting Martin abhors a vacuum. Deaths may be unexpected but they're not gratuitous in terms of the bigger picture - and Martin has his eye on a really big picture, I think.
I'm pretty sure it will end with a good guy winning, for given values of "good" and "win".
I just came back the Wake County Library book sale, though I only bought six books: histories by Fritz Stern and Richard Bessel, a volume of melodies for violin, and six Ian Rankin novels (Watchman, Exit Music, The Complaints).
I may have mentioned this before, but one of the funniest jokes I've heard was speculating that the final book in ASOIAF will be 1200 pages of snow falling on dead bodies. Ha!
So I finished The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle recently and while I was reading it my wife ordered the first four books of ASOIAF. I wasn't planning to read them, as I thought it would hurt my enjoyment of the surprises on HBO's Game of Thrones, but I can't have my wife knowing what is going to happen and not me.
Craig, think you will enjoy the books - despite my misgivings about volumes 4 and 5, I have none about the first three, and am happy to have read and reread them (even on read #4 there were little things I hadn't entirely picked up on) no matter the misgivings. A better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all thing. I just hope GRR Martin is actually working on the promised final volumes - I was going to say something unflattering here but what would be the point.
Started Book 6 of The Wheel Of Time series, which I am slightly ambivalent about but still reading - the spread of plot lines and characters is more than teetering on excessive, and my commitment is teetering as well. How this volume goes will decide if I sojourn on.
Lit major geekage. On a little Trollope kick around here lately. If you go for Masterpiece Theatre-type stuff at all, I can recommend the BBC Barchester Chronicles...star turn by a young Alan Rickman as the unctuous "Mr Slope".
anyone else read/reading franzen's freedom. it's good, though it's taken me a long time to arrive at that conclusion. i kind of hate patty, the lead character. i think am's wife is right; franzen doesn't like his characters. that isn't an especially big flaw for me, but there's something very grating to me about patty bergland.
i guess the idea of the book is that too much freedom, and too many available choices, lead to unhappiness? just a guess at this stage. though, to be honest, i don't think it's fair to say these characters have a lot of freedom. or maybe it would be better to say that they have an initial level of freedom, but once they make a crucial life choice, their path is much more restricted, if not fixed permanently. if anything, i think of the characters in freedom as hopelessly trapped, by their circumstances, their personalities, by the dynamic grown over time between them, by life.
Comments
Craig
@Daniel: a few years ago I read The Corrections, and then tried to get my wife to read it; she threw it down in disgust leas then halfway through and said "He doesn't like his characters." Which I thought was fantastic, and has stuck with me ever since. I now have a very hard time reading anyone who doesn't like their characters. It applies to tv too, for example, it's why I like Parks and Rec more than Community; those Parks and Rec people love their characters. Fwiw.
Eta: I also can't see Franzen's name without thinking of the Simpsons episode with the literary convention and the stoner in the back shouting "Franzone!"
Just finished A Feast of Crows....this pic tells the truth.
Not reading yet, but will be soon. Incredibly, this is currently priced at about 6 bucks on Amazon. Anyone who's interested in in the history of WWII, especially the homefront, should snag it. The first volume (actually 2 vols) covering the war cartoons is indispensable.
ETA: interview with Mauldin's biographer and editor of the collections here.
Reason for reading: loscil just interpreted it musically.
The books hadn't been high on my radar and I didn't get a chance to see the TV show when it was first on, and when A Dance with Dragons came out there seemed to be so much disappointment and anger directed towards it that I decided never to bother with the books. But at Christmas, faced with a rare amount of spare time, I decided to give the first book a shot. Three months later, I've just finished Dance.
I know exactly where people are coming from with their frustration over DwD, given that many readers have had to wait 11 years for any advance in certain plotlines, and those plotlines don't necessarily advance very far. Obviously having read them in such a short time I didn't have that problem, but yes, the last 2 books do sprawl a bit and don't give much payoff in terms of major events. But always I had the sense of Feast and Dance being the "middle game" after a very long and brilliant opening, with all the pieces (yes, including extra ones nobody realised were in the game) being carefully maneuvered into key positions. Maybe Martin is a bit too in love with all the fine details of his world and can't resist all the embellishments, but that's certainly part of the appeal for me.
I have one more to go, and I think that if I knew then what I knew now, I would not have started the series. But then I feel that way about most long fantasy series I read. They start strong then seem to lose track of the story. With Game of Thrones, once I get to liking a character, they are horribly slaughtered before my eyes. Sometimes you just learn they have died without knowing the details. (I guess that is a bit like real life?) I think Martin should have wrapped things up with book three, let a good guy win, etc.
I'm pretty sure it will end with a good guy winning, for given values of "good" and "win".
So now I'm reading Game of Thrones.
Craig
Started Book 6 of The Wheel Of Time series, which I am slightly ambivalent about but still reading - the spread of plot lines and characters is more than teetering on excessive, and my commitment is teetering as well. How this volume goes will decide if I sojourn on.
Some bizarre stuff, but usually funny as well.
Lit major geekage. On a little Trollope kick around here lately. If you go for Masterpiece Theatre-type stuff at all, I can recommend the BBC Barchester Chronicles...star turn by a young Alan Rickman as the unctuous "Mr Slope".
i guess the idea of the book is that too much freedom, and too many available choices, lead to unhappiness? just a guess at this stage. though, to be honest, i don't think it's fair to say these characters have a lot of freedom. or maybe it would be better to say that they have an initial level of freedom, but once they make a crucial life choice, their path is much more restricted, if not fixed permanently. if anything, i think of the characters in freedom as hopelessly trapped, by their circumstances, their personalities, by the dynamic grown over time between them, by life.