We Knew Them When

edited June 2012 in General
Songza Use Explodes, "Pandora Investors Should Be Concerned" Says Analyst
A blog post by a single analyst sent Pandora stock tumbling 12% in two days this week...Earlier this week, Songza became the #1 iOS music app for both iPhone and iPad....
Songza was the #1 iPad app overall - not just music.
Songza is currently the #2 iPhone app overall ahead of Instagram.
Since launch on 6/7 the Songza’s iPad app on the evening of June 7th, the app has generated more than 600,00 installs.

This missed me entirely, but good for them. I checked out the site, it looks kind of cool...they have a very wide range of selected, eclectic programs in many genres. For those who may not remember, Songza was started by the Amie Street guys after they were bought out.

Comments

  • Interesting. No love for Crackberry addicts though. That's what I get for buying a business tool instead of a tiny entertainment system. It's all good though. I can listen to a bazillion internet radio stations.
  • I noticed Songza on the app store. I still don't really understand the appeal. But I'm not a playlist person - it's albums all the way.
  • Same here Prof, but I think it definitely has appeal. So easy - you don't even have to know what you want to listen to, as with Pandora or Spotify. Plus looks hipper. I think people will really like the "occasional" angle, eg, Music for a cocktail party (when everybody wants to seem "hip!"), relaxing, etc. Also seems like a great way to learn about unfamiliar genres, for those encouraged to explore a little.
  • edited June 2012
    I can see that.

    I just went to the site and got a choice of 5 kinds of music for late Friday morning. One was "Music for work or Study (with lyrics)". I would actually prefer without lyrics, but can't see a way to get more options. So I went with that one. It gave me a choice of 5 genres, none of which I would choose to work or study to. Not saying they might not be good choices for others, but personally at this point I'm stuck. I tried every other combination of options in the Music Concierge - it's never heard of ambient or classical or experimental electronic, which is what I would work or study to. Again, the choices are apparently a good call for a mass audience, but don't work for me. I can understand though that the function of the concierge should be for people who don't want to have to find things, and that's not me.

    The browse all is a better way in - now I find that ambient goes with reading. Are there other ambient playlists? The similar playlists it offers are Indie Yoga, Pastoral Symphonies, and Krautrock - two out of three are close but different, the other just different. Ah, "Also in Atmospheric" has some more promising ones.

    So it's basically like Pandora but without having to think of a starting point? I can abstractly see that that could be useful. But I thought Pandora was a great idea, have an account, have it on my iPod touch, and I've used it maybe 5-10 times in several years and created maybe 3 channels. Emusic radio I used once. I have bazillions of internet radio stations in an app on my ipod touch and have used them maybe twice, to listen to sports events. And yet I listen to music incessantly. I think I'm probably just the wrong customer for this, unless (as you suggest) I can persuade myself to listen for discovery purposes every now and then.

    ETA, I think I may have gotten so used to searching for things and listening to samples, that having random tracks go past me at full length to see if I like any of them feels like a very slow path to discovery. The website is very slick, though.
  • @GP

    Perhaps they should have a series of playlists in which only 30 second samples are played and if you hear something you like, you click it and it takes you to a playlist that has full songs.

    Actually, that was exactly how the emusic home page used to work with all those tiny album covers that you could sample, then link to each album page.
  • Lol, yeah, that might work. It is interesting to me how basically every time you start using a website regularly you are submitting to a process of formation, so that when the template changes it doesn't match your habits and the question becomes whether it has enough pull to make you learn new ones.

    Looking at the Songza site it strikes me as having something like the Apple philosophy - smooth lines and minimal options, just go in and press play. While in very many respects my iPod Touch is a better user experience than my old Palm TX, one thing that I always liked better on the Palm than on the iPod was how much stuff I could reconfigure and customize in various apps, sometimes down to quite a lot of detail. I tend to like stuff I can tinker with rather than stuff that just works one way out of the box. I wonder if Songza will have enough things for me to fiddle with to make me spend time there. They have certainly done an impressive job on the interface overall, and I quite like the design (in the same way I like Rdio's design more than Spotify).
  • it's never heard of ambient or classical or experimental electronic

    Hey yeah, what's up with that? No Makunouchi Bento-inspired playlists either. Personally, I'll be on the lookout for a "Have 25,000 Songs Yet Still Looking for Something to Listen To" playlist.
  • One of us should join just to create a Makunouchi Bento-inspired playlist. And another one called "Things Brighternow Found".
  • I'm not a playlist person - it's albums all the way.
    I find it curious that you've made two recent comments about your listening habits: this one, and the one about large collections. Perhaps you could say why you stick to albums? Individual songs--singles--can be works in and of themselves, and collections are themselves composed of individual elements that can be heard apart from the whole.
  • And another one called "Things Brighternow Found".
    :-)
  • edited June 2012
    Individual songs--singles--can be works in and of themselves
    Yes, that's the case. And I'm really just thinking aloud about listening habits, not trying to legislate at all but trying to understand myself and my reactions: I am curious about my own habits and how they have been formed and what is at stake in them, and I'm interested in how other folks' habits differ, and in what's happening when we make listening choices.

    As near as I can tell, my preference for albums (and I do find it is really quite a strong preference - again I'm describing observation of my own prejudices as revealed in actions here, not taking a prescriptive position) is for a start something to do with preferring (i) to listen to a fairly consistent sound aesthetic for more than the length of the average track and/or (ii) to listen to longer compositions that have some sense of development in them. Doesn't at all mean I can't appreciate the well-wrought one-minute track. I think I just find that at any given point in time I have a sense of whether I want to hear, say, glitchy electronic textures, or pounding bass, or choirs and then I want to stick with that for a while. This does not rule out very consistent playlists (I do think the Songza mood feature is interesting), but it does give me a very big inner barrier to using shuffle very much. My wife on the other hand listens on shuffle all the time and often only buys one or two songs from an album.

    So why albums over consistent playlists? Not sure. I don't mind a very well wrought playlist or mix - this one for instance is wonderful, effectively a work in its own right. But if it's well wrought then it is doing what I take many of the artists that I like to be doing when they put an album together - building a whole that is a shade more than the sum of its parts. I suspect that somewhere down there in the subconscious there is some kind of impulse to complete things as well. It bothers me a little at some level of consciousness if I am missing a track or two from an album or only listened to half of it. Maybe I was taught too well to eat all my vegetables. Maybe it gives me some kind of small sense of bounded achievement.

    It's equally possible that a big part of what is driving it is still the formative effect of teenage years before downloads and with no money, when I could occasionally buy used singles but buying an album was a major and cherished event. I suspect, no, I know it still gives me more pleasure to buy a whole album online than buying individual tracks (even the same number of individual tracks), and I suspect that that history is a part of why. And there's more than a little of the collector impulse to have sets of things rather than assortments of things. Album = set, playlist = assortment.

    FWIW I generally prefer novels to short stories - which does not prevent me being a huge admirer of the best short stories, it's just an average bias over time towards things that can unfold on a larger canvas. Though I like poems too. Funny.
  • Oh, and I never even got to the collections. I think that's more evidence for the impulse to complete things: if I buy somethng 8 hours long I feel obligated to listen to it all, and it feels like a chore. I know I can divide it into albums, and I do, but it doesn't entirely negate the feeling. I think I have some precarious equilibrium right now between how much music I download and how much I can pay attention to - adding huge chunks upsets that. But I'm not totally against it if the instance is justified.
  • I'll need to keep my comments brief: Music Maker is having a little Blues festival up in Durham, and I'm trying to get the boy out the door.

    1. Most of the works you've purchased recently obviously require at least one complete listening.
    2. In general, I find that the integrity of albums is labored. In the best cases they evolve organically (unless they are preconceived as a single piece). In most cases they are formed by a sense of what a complete album looks like (tracks, length, moods, tempos, song forms, etc.).
    3. Some collection not only can be parceled out into smaller pieces, it is necessary to do so. The collections that BigD and I download often are trying to tell a different musicological story than what can be done by "the album" or "the greatest hits compilation." (Some are just excuses to put a bunch of songs together without any further thought.) On the other hand, some things aren't meant to be heard all at once. It's not realistic to sit through three of four masses in one day or to listen to a monastery's codex, not meant to be heard at one time even though it could be described as an organic whole.
  • edited June 2012
    Agreed, on all counts, even the second one. I am aware that my bias towards the "integrity" of albums has more to do in many cases with my psychology than with any objective feature of the album, and suspect the personal history reasons I gave above loom large. For some reason, from very, very early in my music buying history I developed a clear feeling that buying an album on which all the songs are by the same artist is more "worthy" than an album by various artists. My suspicion is that that has to do with low-budget pop compilations of the NOW variety being cheap and the albums I most wanted being expensive during my formative years. That might have more to do with it (and with antipathy to playlists) than "objective" features of the music, though I am generally wary of single-cause explanations of just about anything. Probably also the late-teenage discovery of some less commercial concept albums and albums not made of short songs, and the feeling of becoming more sophisticated that went with that.

    Part of what prompted my original comment was musing about how my reaction to big collections was different from (yours/)BigD's, especially when your reaction seems to me much more "rational" (simply in terms of getting a large quantity of music for little money that usually has some kind of generally recognized value, such as being by a famous composer etc, and is clearly by folk that you like). Your approach makes much more sense to me, rationally - but I find myself with sensibilities that make my own visceral reaction different, and suspecting where they came from does not immediately change them. One of the many ways in which music can help learn about oneself, perhaps.

    It's not the only irrational reaction I've discovered. I find there are some genres where when I buy I feel like I am treating myself, and others, especially classical, where I feel like I am doing my homework or something - even if I actually like the classical album better than the other album and get a better deal on it. I know this is irrational and subconscious, but it's there and not quickly overcome.

    If all of this is of no interest to anyone else, do tell and I'll shut up. I go through spells when it's very interesting to me to try to figure out what's really driving my choices.
  • Regarding compilations, I love compilations, and hence the bigger the better. If you were to check my Downloads at that place under Various Artists you'd find 358 entries. There's probably a certain percentage of overlap between many of them but when they are reasonably priced, or even better cheap, I find that acceptable. My personal affection for compilations comes from loving blues and rockabilly, tending towards the vintage, and a lot of artists back in those days weren't actually making albums, they were releasing singles, and if they became successful enough they would get to put out an album. The comp is a way to take a trip through the music of the day, and find people you never heard of who rock your socks, and by the way to find good truly obscure songs to cover. When I started acquiring classical, jazz and world music in more serious fashion I found comps a way to discover my likes and dislikes without having to get whole albums - streaming was not around then; some good college radio stations in the metro area did help. I prefer my classical and opera in complete works overall, but I don't mind taking the scenic route through a big box - you can listen to a little or a lot as time dictates with no loss of continuity. If anything I feel more pressure to listen to a complete work or album in its entirety - like I owe it to the work.
    Of course you have to watch where you step while crossing Compilation Street - or you could spend a lot of time scraping your shoes, but it just adds to the challenge of finding the righteous and the obscure which I am very satisfied when I can find.
  • Makes total sense.
  • I meant to mention in my earlier post that I wish the Amie St. gang well. Their site was innovative, and though it didn't last, it's important for the music industry to be exposed to new ideas, new ways of doing things. Because someone may be inspired by the Amie model and think of a way to improve it, to make it into something that's helpful to musicians and listeners, and which has staying power. Or perhaps inspire someone to create something completely different just by way of seeing that New Ideas can flourish.
  • Music Maker is having a little Blues festival up in Durham
    Foiled by my inability to distinguish between June and July (I should read more carefully). Too bad: I had hoped to pitch drip.fm to the guy who runs Music Maker. We went to the science museum instead.
    the feeling of becoming more sophisticated that went with that.
    I used to feel that way too: or, the sense of a theme and the length of tracks were measures by which I judge albums' complexity.
    Part of what prompted my original comment was musing about how my reaction to big collections was different from (yours/)BigD's, especially when your reaction seems to me much more "rational" (simply in terms of getting a large quantity of music for little money that usually has some kind of generally recognized value, such as being by a famous composer etc, and is clearly by folk that you like). Your approach makes much more sense to me, rationally - but I find myself with sensibilities that make my own visceral reaction different, and suspecting where they came from does not immediately change them. One of the many ways in which music can help learn about oneself, perhaps.
    I don't download most of the large collections that I post here. Many end up in my personal SFL, and I contemplate getting one of them every now and then. BigD exercises some influence, particularly when it comes to old Blues and Jazz (greg and kez also influence my decisions). The allure of purchasing large collections comes more from a belief that I'll be more likely to get something of quality if there are more possibilities. A month ago BigD suggested several comps of Jazz guitar, and I picked one of the smaller ones because I felt that it better suited my needs and interests at the time.

    Something that differentiates my listening (rather than my purchasing) is that I might like to get some further use out of what I hear. I spend a few hours a week transcribing tune and pieces that I find interesting. Most of it is Celtic, but also some Jazz and Classical. Mostly I'm interested in melody and improvisation, but sometimes I do more. Sometimes I intend to learn and play the tune myself, but I might just be interested in studying the stylings of the performer very closely. Consequentially, I might obsess over 1-2 minutes of one track, getting it in my head as much as possible, but delaying hearing an album in full until I do my transcription. Perhaps that is a neurotic way to listen, but I feel that listening at this level--understanding its DNA--contributed to how I understand the whole work.
    There's probably a certain percentage of overlap between many of them but when they are reasonably priced, or even better cheap, I find that acceptable.
    I really hate duplication. That's where I'm irrational.
  • edited June 2012
    Perhaps that is a neurotic way to listen
    No, sounds like a great way to listen to me. I don't play an instrument (wish I did!), and understand a lot less about music than I wish I did, but I also try to pay close and repeated attention to at least some things. The blog is actually helping with that - reviewing something (the way I hope to do it) demands at least 8-10 complete listens, several of them close listens, and some of them involving looping single tracks to try to get hold of what is happening in them. This is a kind of listening I aspire to anyway in principle, but the blog helps me actually do it more often - it's another kind of listening "for further use", in this case for writing.
    Duplication bothers me too.
    And due to BigD and others I have downloaded some box sets recently, so this is all relative.
  • A fascinating discussion. Having come to it late (busy weekend with granddaughters and working in London yesterday) I won't repeat points made already. I certainly used to be a singles person, probably from the era when I started listening to music, but gradually moved to become an album person. Initially these would be no more than a collection of tracks until the Pet Sounds/Sgt Pepper era. I very rarely will buy a single track, invariably the full album, as I too am a collector and want the whole thing! But I do admit to wishing I could easily buy some of the vintage collections BDB and others mention from emusic at US prices. Maybe I still hark back to my younger days.
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