Pitchfork Top 200 Albums of 2000

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  • I don't even own Is This It?, so I haven't heard most of the album. I take it from Thom's post that "Someday" is on that album, so I know that one!

    As for the "tokenism" I concur with Thom that music 'genres' are one place where "separate but equal" should apply. Of course defining 'genres' then becomes an issue.

    Craig
  • edited November 2009
    Of course defining 'genres' then becomes an issue.

    Distorted guitars and long hair: rock.
    Strange tunings and guyliner: alternative.
    Swing and horns: jazz.
    Acoustic guitars and, apparently, beards: folk.
    Twang and big hats: country.
    Clicks and foreign-sounding names: electronic.
    Subalterns in Parisian studios: international.

    I'm not simplifying, am I?
  • Distorted guitars and long hair: rock.
    Swing and horns: jazz.
    Acoustic guitars and, apparently, beards: folk.
    Twang and big hats: country.
    Clicks and foreign-sounding names: electronic.
    Subalterns in Parisian studios: international.

    Seems clear enough to me. So what's "indie?"
  • gesundheit!

    Well I've never heard of them, but you are the indie boi, so I'll take your word for it.
  • Man, I'm going to have to reclassify my whole collection now!

    I'm already stumped by NIN.

    Craig
  • I'm already stumped by NIN.
    Rule of thumb: anything that appears to cross over does so toward the more obscure genre.

    Example: Creed's "With Arms Wide Open", because it has strings, is classical music.
  • edited November 2009
    ok, got it; I think I've seen Trent Reznor in a big hat - therefore, NIN = Country.
  • I know I've seen Al Jorgenstein wear a cowboy hat many times so Ministry = country.

    As to jazz tokeinism, at least they didn't try to put the newest reissue of Kind of Blue on the list.

    RE: Matthew Shipp, I was won over after seeing the duo in the mid 90s. Without a doubt the most intense show I've ever been to. Many people in the audience were full on trancing out, one dude fell out of his chair he was so zoned out by the music (it was an older gentleman who I'd talked to before the show and I thought he was going to have a rough time as his tastes seemed to end around 1967.)
  • ok, got it; I think I've seen Trent Reznor in a big hat - therefore, NIN = Country.

    Exactly. Plus, Johnny Cash wore black, and Trent Reznor wears black, so it's pretty obvious.
  • But Johnny Cash had horns in "Ring of Fire" so he's jazz.

    Craig
  • edited November 2009
    I understand how irksome tokenism can be, but what about the utility of the appearance of that Coleman album (which is partially explained by its Pulitzer win too, I think)? Would either Ornette or "jazz" be served more without its appearance? Is the list's audience served less with it?

    I'm happy for Ornette for all the accolades he receives. He, and many of the old-school jazzers, deserve it. My rant was focused more on the people making these lists and not on the fallout from them. It's great that Ornette has almost become an automatic. But it's a huge disservice to jazz and especially jazz musicians on the scene that Sound Grammar is the only album (and didn't even crack the top fifty). Ornette's perfectly decent live album being the only inclusion on that list might lead people to believe that it was the best jazz album of the decade and give the impression that a perfectly decent live album by an old-school jazzer is the most relevant thing out there today. It's reinforcing jazz's reputation for being a music of the past, which, based on musicians making music today, just isn't the case.
    In the end, it doesn't really matter that Sound Grammar's inclusion doesn't hurt jazz any more than its exclusion would help it, because the people that put it on the list weren't thinking about Ornette or jazz; they were thinking about their own image and credibility.
  • At least Jazz enjoys its tokens. Beyond Coleman, there are two other Jazz recordings on the list, and one more that tips its hat to Jazz in a serious manner. The panoply of traditional music is represented by folk and country music derivatives of popular music (Miranda Lambert, Arnalds, Banhart, Califone). Even the Avett Brothers craft popular songs, albeit with textures drawn from Old TIme.
  • Yeah. For a largely indie-centric site, I think the list is impressively diverse. In any event, there are the genre-specific lists coming, one of which I'm sure will be jazz.

    FWIW, I don't pay much attention to modern jazz. But what I've heard does little to change my view that old jazz (maybe 20s -- 70s (and I include fusion -- especially Miles Davis' fusion, in my "great jazz era")) pwns new jazz. But I'm happy to be convinced otherwise.
  • I figured I'd post this here since it is a best of the decade list. Paste Magazine's Top 12 Music Books of the Decade.

    I've read two of them (Walsh's oral history of The Replacements and Azerrad's book), and recommend them both highly.

    Now hopefully I'll get some Amazon gift cards for Christmas and can grab a couple more of them!

    Craig
  • Anybody have any jazz picks for this year? I'm interested in current jazz but extremely un-knowledgeable. I'm also down to 12 np's per month so... if you had to pick just one...
  • ...and here's the Observer Music Magazine albums of the decade list:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/nov/29/albums-of-the-decade

    As with all these lists I don't agree with most of the choices (particularly the No.1!), but it's at least got a few different albums included.
  • any jazz picks for this year? I'm interested in current jazz
    I'm not much into making lists these days (nor do I make a big effort to investigate the bulk of noted annual releases), but these 2009 releases stick out to me - totally depends on your tastes what you prefer, so sample them. I personally probably favor one of the larger ensemble albums, love both of them.

    Large ensembles:
    Darcy James Argue's Secret Society - Infernal Machines (%)
    John Hollenbeck - Eternal Interlude (%)

    Small ensembles:
    Carl Maguire's Floriculture - Sided Silver Solid (%)
    Jeremy Udden - Plainville (%)
  • Anybody have any jazz picks for this year? I'm interested in current jazz but extremely un-knowledgeable. I'm also down to 12 np's per month so... if you had to pick just one...

    I'm surprisingly light on jazz albums recorded in 2009, even lighter in terms of what's available on emusic. I can recommend a few...

    1. Jeremy Udden - "Plainville". A jazz musician who put out an album that's barely jazz, so it might have some real cross-over appeal to people not hardcore jazzers. One of the kindest albums I've purchased in a long while. Could just as easily be mis-filed under Alt-country or some such sub-genre niche. The emusic samples linked to above give a good representation of the album, and his myspace page has full tracks from the album.

    2. Diego Barber - "Calima". "Calima" is not quite jazz, not quite world, not quite folk, and not quite classical. The word that keeps popping up when people describe this album is 'expansive', and it holds true. Here's his myspace page with full tracks: http://www.myspace.com/diegobarbermusic

    3. Ben Allison - "Think Free". Ben is one of the premier young guys on the scene. Much of his jazz has a rock sensibility without ever sounding like something other than jazz. Here's his myspace. http://www.myspace.com/diegobarbermusic

    4. Christophe Pays - "Ellipse". A peaceful little album. Would appeal to fans of ECM or Marty Ehrlich. Great bass clarinet play on it. Here's his website...http://www.christophepays.com/Ellipse/Disque.html

    5. Another vote for Darcy James Argue's Secret Society "Infernal Machines". A big band album that's anything but formulaic, but in the process of its experimentation, never loses that buoyant joy that traditional big bands give a listener.

    6. Klabbes Bank - "Je Suis la Mer". It appeals to me much in the same way the Esbjorn Svensson Trio does. It has that sparse Norwegian jazz sound, but with bursts of playful excitement. Some electronica/digital effects thrown in tastefully. This is perhaps my album of the year if I don't give it to Udden's "Plainville". Here's their myspace. http://www.myspace.com/klabbesbank

    That's all I got to recommend for jazz albums that came out in 2009 and are available on emusic (to me; if you can get ECM where you're at, I could recommend some more). I should add that my ear is in a non-traditional jazz place, and there are a bunch of albums available that are being raved about on a jazz forum I'm a member of, but I just haven't picked up yet. I don't want to recommend anything I don't actually own. Also, two albums on my SFL that I would like to recommend but won't because I haven't given them a full listen are...

    1. Roman Ott's Inner Shape - "Seeing People". On the Fresh Sound label, which is putting out some of the best jazz today. Here's the emusic link... http://www.emusic.com/album/Roman-Ott-INNER-SHAPE-Seeing-People-MP3-Download/11608793.html

    2. Matthew Halsell - "Colour Yes". From the meager samples this musician has online, it sounds like a beautiful album. But I'm usually unwilling to purchase an album from a musician who can't be bothered to stream a few songs on his myspace or band site page. Here's the emusic link all the same... http://www.emusic.com/album/Matthew-Halsall-Colour-Yes-MP3-Download/11682607.html.

    Hope that helps. If you want to go back a few years for recording date (2008, 2007, etc), I can widen my recs.
    Cheers.
  • Anybody have any jazz picks for this year?
    Something that has been well noticed is the great stuff coming from the upstart Firehouse 12: the aforementioned Carl Maguire, John H
  • Anybody have any jazz picks for this year?
    Renaud Garcia-Fons - La L
  • Thank you all for the picks! Some really great stuff in here. Now I just have to pick from the picks. (And elwood the Amie street recs help because I'm so low on emu credits.)

    So far from the samples I'm leaning toward Klabbes Bank, although I will be using this list for months to come.

    Also, a little searching down avenues you pointed out led me to some other interesting things (which maybe you're already aware of) but Further Secret Origins, an album for solo bassoon by Katherine Young, sounds really good to me.

    Found by checking out Firehouse 12, then looking at Dragon's Head by Mary Halvorson trio, which I've been meaning to get because I have, and love, Opulence, by Mary Halvorson and Weasel Walter, (also on Firehouse 12, I recomend Peter Evans Quartet), then I looked for other things by Mary Halvorson, and found she shows up on Luminosity by Matthew Welch, which is an interesting sounding bagpipe record, which led me to Porter Records, which is where I found that other thing.

    So, yeah, thanks!

    And emusic, love it or hate it, is still the easiest place I know of to search things out when given just the tiniest starting nudge.
  • I really love Dragon's Head, a great album. Since you like Peter Evans, do you know Mostly Other People Do the Killing, a hell of a fun group?
  • Yes, I was lucky enough to catch a concert of Mary Halvorson, Peter Evans and Weasel Walter playing together, and I picked up Opulence, Shamokin', and Sparks, with Evans and Tom Blancarte at the merch table. I only wish I could find a recording of the trio I saw - they were amazing together.
  • FWIW, I don't pay much attention to modern jazz. But what I've heard does little to change my view that old jazz (maybe 20s -- 70s (and I include fusion -- especially Miles Davis' fusion, in my "great jazz era")) pwns new jazz. But I'm happy to be convinced otherwise.

    There's no real way to compare era to era. There are too many contexts, both within the music and society, to really do an apples to apples comparison. Your opinion, however, that the best jazz was made in the past is not an uncommon one. The combination of the masterful marketing of past jazz re-issues and the natural human inclination to revere great things in history and nostalgically trend to things from back in the day (even if we weren't old enough to actually be there) is tough for modern jazz musicians to overcome. Hey, I've been listening to jazz almost exclusively for about fifteen years (longer, but not exclusively), and it wasn't until a couple of years ago that my eyes opened up to how much jazz was being made today. Sometime soon, I'm gonna put some sort of index up that give a rundown on modern-day jazzers in one line or less. Y'know, kind of trite simple remarks about them, but will give people a usable sorting mechanism so you're not having to slog through a huge list of unknowns and can narrow it down a bit. Something like...

    Todd Sickafoose - "Tiny Resistors" : If Andrew Bird makes sense to you, then you're tastes are strange enough to give this album a listen.
    (I can do better than that, but you get the idea)

    It's great that there's all this awesome music out there, but some of these lists can be a bit overwhelming. I'm sure some of us can do something to make it easier.
    Cheers.
  • edited December 2009
    Jonah, I appreciate the thoughtful response. I like jazz, and I'm open to current jazz, but little grabs me or seems innovative or even vital.

    Just this morning, someone kindly posted on the eMusic Message Boards a list of albums available on eMusic that received four or more stars from Downbeat Magazine in 2010 (not sure how that works tbh). Here's the list. I'm letting the samples play in the background at my office. They're . . . nice. Pleasant. Skillful. But so far, nothing more. Am I missing a masterwork among these discs?

    UPDATE: The Danny Kalb disc is sort of intriguing. Sort of. But it's blues, not jazz (to be overly-technical). (BTW, blues is definitely a genre where I prefer the old stuff -- say, turn of the 20th Century -- to almost anything new).
  • edited December 2009
    as to how the 2010 list works; I think that okierambler keeps a running list month-to-month from downbeat (here's his 2009 list), and magazines being usually 1 month ahead, he's begun the January 2010 list.

    as to "innovative or even vital" - did you listen to any samples provided in the posts above? sure I can see how some, or even all, of this would not "grab you" because what you like is what you like, but no sir you cannot tell me that the stuff in those links up there is not innovative and vital.

    (by the way, Black Rio 2, from okie's 2009 list, while not jazz, would seem to be right up your alley - unfortunately not album priced, but from what I've read about it, it sounds worth it anyway.)
  • I'll check out Black Rio 2 today.

    Which list are you referring to (I did sample okierambler's list; perhaps you mean the one upthread here)?
  • yeah, upthread here. Id. Supra.
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