The only thing I am missing are the albums I've read about recently that I might have been able to score there if they still actually had a selection.
and
I think emusic actually spent the last year effectively weaning me off their site.
It has been an addiction for me. I even left for about 5 months and came back about a year ago, but I've had two holds since then. But I don't see me returning again unless something drastically changes. The download scene is changing. Many have moved on from downloading, so the number of players in the market are reducing. Realistically it will soon just be Apple, Amazon and Google for the majors with Bandcamp for 'lesser' labels. Even Apple is pulling back a lot to go to streaming.
I think the market shift is even more dramatic than simply a shift from CDs/downloads to streaming. Bigger name artists and major labels are recognizing that selling $200 concert tickets is the way to compensate for the loss of revenue from sales being replaced by streaming. And it probably works for major labels (who, collectively, make a LOT of money from streaming) and major artists (who make a LOT of money from live shows and the associated merch sales). The basic math is that artists/labels can't make a 1:1 replacement for loss record sales with concert attendees. They just can't play enough shows to enough people to make that math work. But if you increase ticket prices by 5x, you now can play live shows to 20% of the audience that used to buy your records and come out roughly the same or even ahead. They often now even include a CD or download code with the the concert tickets. And, of course, the biggest artists actually make money from streaming due to volume.
But this strategy is less viable for smaller artists and indie labels. They can't command $200 tickets at large venues, so they have no way to compensate for that loss of sales revenue to streaming. There is at least a micro-trend in these smaller labels pulling content from the big streaming platforms, recognizing they can never make enough to stay solvent, and hoping that directly connecting with fans and selling through sites like Bandcamp can at least get them back closer to parity with what used to be the only game in town prior to big box streaming platforms (e.g. selling records and/or downloads the old-fashioned way, and touring to build a fan base). I really don't know how this will shake out in the long run for these smaller labels - things look rather grim, because pulling content from streaming certainly stops the bleeding of giving away your music, but it doesn't solve the problem of building a fan base and selling music in a market that is being trained to expect it for (virtually) free on streaming platforms. This is where I think eMusic burning itself to the ground through mismanagement is more than just unfortunate - it took away one of precious few ways these smaller labels had to monetize more effectively than streaming. When eMusic (under former management, of course) actually paid their bills to labels/artists instead of wasting all that money on a failed blockchain pipedream, they had a model that would have become more valued by the smaller labels in the streaming era. Instead, eMusic was taken over by TriPlay and promptly run into the ground to chase an ICO unicorn that never materialized. Sad.
I finally cancelled yesterday before my hold ends over the weekend. I'm surprised that I still have acess to my music etc. I did a search before cancelling to see if I could downlaod 23 tracks that my subscription allows before cancelling but I'd really be downloading stuff that I wouldn't buy if there was more choice. Sad, but all good things come to an end eventually. The music world has moved on.
It would be most delightful if anyone who's jumped ship but still on the fence could be persuaded to return by this list of what's still available. I personally would gleefully plow through $75 boosters if funds were unlimited:-) http://www.omnifoo.info/pages/eMusic%20Labels.html See also the database "Announcement" on this site.
My additions to what's still available would be "First Word Music", "The Band Aid Trust", "Concert Live", "Fable Records", "HHO", "Jur/Starwood Media", "nagel heyer records", "Tramp Records", "ESP-Disk", "Audio Cave", "Roaratorio", "Important Records" and the mighty "Alligator Records" for anybody who has even a vague interest in the blues.
One of the problems for those of us outside of the USA is that we pay per track. For example, I looked at the two Band Aid/Live Aid sets. Even with the cheapest booster prices they would cost me at least treble what I would pay at Amazon or virtually anywhere-else. Almost any collection is cheaper elsewhere. The time and effort against gains equation searching at eMusic for me has swung the other way.
One of the problems, as far as I am concerned, is that so little of what is available is recent. A quick calculation of the most popular jazz releases (I looked at the first two pages of Most Popular - 96 albums) is that around less than 10% has had its original release in the last five years, discounting what are basically bootlegs of concerts from 50 plus years ago in some cases. There are only two or three totally new releases from this year.
Well, I finally cancelled my subscription after 12 years. Looks
like eMusic have given up the ghost, as I didn't receive a single plea
to continue or offer to hold my membership after submitting my request online via my account.
I've
just about managed to d/l 75 tracks a month for the last few months so
decided that was it. My bandcamp wish list is growing and can now be the
thrust of my music purchases, albeit at a reduced rate.
Since
the start of Covid lockdown I've also been tracking down digital
back-ups for my vinyl collection via legit sources and many more less-so
music blogs too. eMusic probably haven't been paying anyone for what
I've bought for a while so I'm happy to use those sources for music that's
not been available to buy for years!
Latest non-eMusic purchases:
Cabaret Voltaire - Shadow of Fear [download]
Moon Wiring Club - 7 cd bundle of old releases: Clutch It Like A Gonk (Gonk Edition); Ghastly Garden Centres; When A New Trick Comes Out I Do An Old One and Tantalising Mews [via bandcamp]
eMusic farewell from December:
Woodleigh Research Facility - Facility 4: A Walk With Bob & Bill Vol 3 [leaving just Vol 4 as one I'll have to get elsewhere]
Black Moth Super Rainbow - Eating Us
Caribou - Start Breaking My Heart (Special Edition)
Future Loop Foundation - Another English Summer and The Fading Room - Memories & Remixes
My Disco - Environment Remixes
Celer - Akagi; You Only See The Way Up and In The End You'll Just Disappear
plus various tracks from compilations by Listening Center and The Heartwood Institute
Tellingly, I've realised that I've still not listened to at least 5 of those eMusic purchases...
@Dark_Magus If you hung in there this long and haven't (aren't?) listening to what you download from eMu, I guess I can't blame you. Regarding payment of artists, I think the catalog has stabilized and grown back some in 2020, and the tokens' transparency should assuage any doubts if anyone uses them. What's actually going on there is anybody's guess, though. A family member has gifted me into an Apple Music plan, I bought a lot on Bandcamp in 2020, but I still want to see whether eMusic can turn itself around in the long run and intend to stay subscribed.
eMusic has no intentions of turning anything around. They abandoned the business a couple years ago (or arguably more), and it exists now solely as a way to collect subscription funds from abandoned accounts that were never canceled. Most employees are long gone, and the catalogue, of course, is decimated. The CEO of TriPlay/eMusic shifted his focus on to 7Digital, in which he invested to bail them out. eMusic tinkers with advertising live events, etc. as part of the ongoing blockchain nonsense, but don't assume because blockchain is used that artists get paid. Transparency was never the issue. eMusic just long ago decided they would stop paying labels/artists, then see how long it took the labels to pull content and leave, and just keep giving away music and pocketing subscribers' cash in the meantime. Blockchain doesn't automatically pay anyone anything on eMusic. Labels knew their music was being downloaded and that no checks were coming in the mail long before the dalliance with blockchain began. I doubt any of those left see a dime, and I would further guess a number of the labels still there don't even know they are available on eMusic. Low volume, no payments, and too small to hire lawyers to go threaten eMusic.
By all means stay subscribed if you wish, but just understand that you are taking music from artists with them getting no compensation and that your subscription just lines the pockets of their CEO (who is likely about the only employee left besides a few IT people). You may just as well go to some of those Russian MP3 sites and steal free music there instead - no subscription needed. ;-)
You may just as well go to some of those Russian MP3 sites and steal free music there instead - no subscription needed. ;-)
Well, by all means don't shop there if you feel that way. I don't mind being considered cheap for doing business there, but I take some offence to being considered a crook. ;-)
I still think it's most likely eMusic had to pick and choose which labels to pay due to declining revenue. The suspicion that no one's been paid for years rather took hold of the subreddit. I'd describe the catalog as having hit bottom but slowly rebuilding, and the site has occasional eMusic Live updates, so their skeleton crew does seem to be doing the bare minimum. Just my opinion, though, and everyone would welcome more evidence either way.
Aside from the fact that you are abetting something if not illegal at least unethical (and whether you like it or not that makes you at least crook-adjacent), I can't figure out why you would be wasting your time listening to second-rate music. And in jazz (the only genre I know) that's pretty much all that is left at eMusic. It will take me most of 2021 to really enjoy all the music on NPR's 2020 list, much less the Canadian jazz Peter Hum listed, the year-end lists from Cadance, Jazzwise and even DownBeat and hear the good new music that's going to be released during the year (none of which will be at eMusic). I don't have time to listen to Music for Brewing Coffee by that well-known group Jazz Chill Out Relax. Life's too short to listen to dreck - avoid eMusic.
I know there is classic jazz available at eMusic. I see two versions of Kind of Blue, for example. A reminder that these are copyright free second generation copies; no royalties are being paid to the Davis estate. As well, Crazy Warthog Media and TP4 Music do not have access to the master tapes, so what you are getting is a copy of someone's cd (or in some cases well worn cassette or lp). I doubt that either of them employ recording engineers.
^^ Well, after reflecting on this I believe I owe everyone here an apology for a really childish reply. In 2008 I followed a bunch of folks from the old Emusic days here to share some thoughts about music and complain about Emusic. I've done my share and it's always been lots of fun. However, this certainly isn't fun. I suppose it's because I do understand the ethics and can see myself in a bad light. I've been collecting records all my life and never gave a thought of royalties to the artist. I paid for almost everything I have in my collection which is probably about 60% from used record stores, 20% discount buys from bulk album stores and event sales and 20% regular priced albums. When I first started using a computer in 2000 I tried that Limewire for a bit and also used a Russian site until I realized that wasn't fair. I don't download anything from Bandcamp that I don't pay for(unless it is marked as Free). I don't understand streaming but I don't listen to things in full unless I download it. If I could afford to download only at Bandcamp, I would. However, I still plan to keep my subscription and I'm willing to be considered a crook.
I do have some knowledge of the situation at eMusic but am not at liberty to share details. Independent of that, there has been enough public disclosure by labels and distributors over the past several years to substantiate that they were not paying a dime. Choose to believe whatever you want. And just to be clear, I am not calling anyone here a "crook", but I *am* pointing out two things: (1) the very real equivalency between what artists receive from eMusic and what artists receive from illegal sites giving away pirated music, and (2) that a blockchain in no way means artists are automatically getting paid by eMusic or anyone else. It's some technology that enables a digital currency - that's it. Whether anyone gets paid is not intrinsically tied to the form of currency used. You can get cheated in bitcoin or eMu tokens just as easily as any other currency. If paying for a subscription shifts the ethical scales in a favorable direction for you, go for it. No judgement implied from me. Just know that the subscription fees aren't finding their way to artists' pockets - only the pockets of owners of eMusic.
As with others who have commented here, the combination of shady business practices and an extreme decline in content of interest to me was enough to usher me out the door. But I realize others still find value there, which is fine. This little mini-thread started with the notion that perhaps eMusic would make a "comeback", and I was really just noting that this is very unlikely to happen.
Aside: My comments about payments apply to the (mostly defunct) MP3 download business. I have no idea about what arrangements exist for the very few artists they enlisted to push their live event platform, which seems to be more of a 7Digital thing wrapped in some eMusic-ish branding. 7Digital has their own management team, and I presume they do pay their bills, unlike eMusic in the later years.
Soulcoal, these are serious accusations. You seem to be implying that none of the revenue from mp3 downloads go to the artists or labels. I think customers have a right to learn what percent of the money spent on monthly membership fees and bonus packs go to labels (and ultimately the artists).
I don't know about blockchain, but I am guessing that it's an attempt to minimize currency exchange fees.
Fascinating to see all the different reasons going back all the way to over 10 years ago that people found for leaving eMusic. Looks like it has been one of the most popular "Discussions" over the last decade with more than 2,400 comments!
Fascinating to see all the different reasons going back all the way to over 10 years ago that people found for leaving eMusic. Looks like it has been one of the most popular "Discussions" over the last decade with more than 2,400 comments!
I hadn't noticed how long this thread had grown. Looking back over it, it kind of maps out eMusic's evolution over the last ten years... the change from DLs to Dollars, the addition of the major labels, the price-per-track variations, the arrival and disappearance of certain labels, the different ways the eMusic site has gone wrong and the various ways it's attempting to bring people back, the switch to new site formats, the departure of the major labels, the changes in membership levels, the highs and lows of the eMusic forum, the switch of the forum over to reddit, the reports of non-payment by eMusic, the eMusic death spiral, and, of course, the exploits of Sucklechimp.
Soulcoal, these are serious accusations. You seem to be implying that none of the revenue from mp3 downloads go to the artists or labels. I think customers have a right to learn what percent of the money spent on monthly membership fees and bonus packs go to labels (and ultimately the artists).
I do not know if it is true that no labels/artists are being paid at eMusic, but I do personally know of several that have not been paid since 2018 or earlier. Certainly in jazz and classical (the genres I know) no reputable label is adding new material at eMusic. As for what %, although it isn't a %, you can see at Bandcamp how much has gone to artists. As I write this it is $21 million in the last 30 days. I couldn't quickly find the exact formula, but Bandcamp normally takes between 10% and 15% - except for the first Friday of every month when they take 0%. Do note that Bandcamp doesn't actually handle any of the physical merchandise (cds, lps, t-shirts) sold at the site - shipping them is still the responsibility of the label/artist. Bandcamp does host the downloads. I don't know what % of sales are for physical merchandise, but do know that many lps and special cd editions sell out rather quickly.
I see two versions of Kind of Blue, for example. A reminder that these are copyright free second generation copies; no royalties are being paid to the Davis estate.
Concern about contemporary artists and labels not getting paid is an obvious one, of course, but I don't see any ethical need to complain about stuff like this. The copyright law's extensions in the past are wildly beyond reason - any "ethical" copyright scenario would have KOB in the public domain many years ago. The music is 61 years old, and its leader died 30 years ago! I don't waste a second's moral concern about scenarios like these. "legal" != "ethical" (and the opposite)
I see two versions of Kind of Blue, for example. A reminder that these are copyright free second generation copies; no royalties are being paid to the Davis estate.
Concern about contemporary artists and labels not getting paid is an obvious one, of course, but I don't see any ethical need to complain about stuff like this. The copyright law's extensions in the past are wildly beyond reason - any "ethical" copyright scenario would have KOB in the public domain many years ago. The music is 61 years old, and its leader died 30 years ago! I don't waste a second's moral concern about scenarios like these. "legal" != "ethical" (and the opposite)
Well, let's see. Royalties don't just go to the Davis estate. Columbia invested considerable funds in Kind of Blue - a studio, engineer's time, Irving Townsend's time, publicity expenses. And what did Crazy Warthog invest in? A copy of the cd (maybe, see below), a copy of dbpoweramp (amortized over at least 1254 dupes), and a couple of terrabyte USB hard drive (don't need that big a one since there are only going to be MP3s) and some teenager's time to do the ripping. Since neither of the emusic duplicates have the bonus Flamenco Sketches that all recent Columbia or Sony releases feature, who knows what they copied from, it certainly wasn't the master tapes. In this case, who knows if they didn't copy from one of the old releases with the incorrect speed on the first three tracks. Maybe one of the two didn't even bother to purchase a copy of dbpoweramp or the cd and simply downloaded the other's duplicate from emusic? Columbia/Sony use the income from sales of Kind of Blue on their cds to help fund other, contemporary recordings. How much do you think Crazy Warthog has invested in recording any current artist? And, to add insult to injury, they can't even get the genre right; TP4 ludicrously assigns the genre, Easy Listening, Pop, World (well, it's got that flamenco thing doesn't it?) and Warthog says it is Pop/Rock, World (flamenco, again?).
"Columbia invested considerable funds in Kind of Blue"
Of course, and copyright exists to protect that investment and allow the ability to recover it. You're offering that as a response to my post implies to me that nothing ever move from private to public domain. Is that your position?
"Columbia invested considerable funds in Kind of Blue"
Of course, and copyright exists to protect that investment and allow the ability to recover it. You're offering that as a response to my post implies to me that nothing ever move from private to public domain. Is that your position?
Comments
It has been an addiction for me. I even left for about 5 months and came back about a year ago, but I've had two holds since then. But I don't see me returning again unless something drastically changes. The download scene is changing. Many have moved on from downloading, so the number of players in the market are reducing. Realistically it will soon just be Apple, Amazon and Google for the majors with Bandcamp for 'lesser' labels. Even Apple is pulling back a lot to go to streaming.
But this strategy is less viable for smaller artists and indie labels. They can't command $200 tickets at large venues, so they have no way to compensate for that loss of sales revenue to streaming. There is at least a micro-trend in these smaller labels pulling content from the big streaming platforms, recognizing they can never make enough to stay solvent, and hoping that directly connecting with fans and selling through sites like Bandcamp can at least get them back closer to parity with what used to be the only game in town prior to big box streaming platforms (e.g. selling records and/or downloads the old-fashioned way, and touring to build a fan base). I really don't know how this will shake out in the long run for these smaller labels - things look rather grim, because pulling content from streaming certainly stops the bleeding of giving away your music, but it doesn't solve the problem of building a fan base and selling music in a market that is being trained to expect it for (virtually) free on streaming platforms. This is where I think eMusic burning itself to the ground through mismanagement is more than just unfortunate - it took away one of precious few ways these smaller labels had to monetize more effectively than streaming. When eMusic (under former management, of course) actually paid their bills to labels/artists instead of wasting all that money on a failed blockchain pipedream, they had a model that would have become more valued by the smaller labels in the streaming era. Instead, eMusic was taken over by TriPlay and promptly run into the ground to chase an ICO unicorn that never materialized. Sad.
See also the database "Announcement" on this site.
One of the problems, as far as I am concerned, is that so little of what is available is recent. A quick calculation of the most popular jazz releases (I looked at the first two pages of Most Popular - 96 albums) is that around less than 10% has had its original release in the last five years, discounting what are basically bootlegs of concerts from 50 plus years ago in some cases. There are only two or three totally new releases from this year.
By all means stay subscribed if you wish, but just understand that you are taking music from artists with them getting no compensation and that your subscription just lines the pockets of their CEO (who is likely about the only employee left besides a few IT people). You may just as well go to some of those Russian MP3 sites and steal free music there instead - no subscription needed. ;-)
I know there is classic jazz available at eMusic. I see two versions of Kind of Blue, for example. A reminder that these are copyright free second generation copies; no royalties are being paid to the Davis estate. As well, Crazy Warthog Media and TP4 Music do not have access to the master tapes, so what you are getting is a copy of someone's cd (or in some cases well worn cassette or lp). I doubt that either of them employ recording engineers.
When I first started using a computer in 2000 I tried that Limewire for a bit and also used a Russian site until I realized that wasn't fair. I don't download anything from Bandcamp that I don't pay for(unless it is marked as Free). I don't understand streaming but I don't listen to things in full unless I download it.
If I could afford to download only at Bandcamp, I would. However, I still plan to keep my subscription and I'm willing to be considered a crook.
Once again, my apologies to all.
I don't know about blockchain, but I am guessing that it's an attempt to minimize currency exchange fees.
I hadn't noticed how long this thread had grown. Looking back over it, it kind of maps out eMusic's evolution over the last ten years... the change from DLs to Dollars, the addition of the major labels, the price-per-track variations, the arrival and disappearance of certain labels, the different ways the eMusic site has gone wrong and the various ways it's attempting to bring people back, the switch to new site formats, the departure of the major labels, the changes in membership levels, the highs and lows of the eMusic forum, the switch of the forum over to reddit, the reports of non-payment by eMusic, the eMusic death spiral, and, of course, the exploits of Sucklechimp.
I do not know if it is true that no labels/artists are being paid at eMusic, but I do personally know of several that have not been paid since 2018 or earlier. Certainly in jazz and classical (the genres I know) no reputable label is adding new material at eMusic. As for what %, although it isn't a %, you can see at Bandcamp how much has gone to artists. As I write this it is $21 million in the last 30 days. I couldn't quickly find the exact formula, but Bandcamp normally takes between 10% and 15% - except for the first Friday of every month when they take 0%. Do note that Bandcamp doesn't actually handle any of the physical merchandise (cds, lps, t-shirts) sold at the site - shipping them is still the responsibility of the label/artist. Bandcamp does host the downloads. I don't know what % of sales are for physical merchandise, but do know that many lps and special cd editions sell out rather quickly.
Of course, and copyright exists to protect that investment and allow the ability to recover it. You're offering that as a response to my post implies to me that nothing ever move from private to public domain. Is that your position?
Yes