What is Jazz??? (and how can you tell)

jackedUPjazz

Well I guess its up to me start the jazz discussion. Looks like everybody is starting a thread with their favorite brand. Jazz will not be ignored.

My first rec was actually pre So-Nee (hey I'm rhyming again) when I was cleaning out my June downloads before they went all pumpkin and mice on me. I was just about to use them up on some random crap but clicked around just to see if I might find something special. And how!

I had not notice that a new Kurt Elling album had shown up. And this one is nice because it brings back the old Kurt Elling while breaking some new ground. I don't recall ever hearing Kurt Elling with strings before. Not all lush and orchestrated like Bird with strings, but very sparse maybe a trio with cello, viola, violin or something. Nereffid help me out here.

I was a little disappointed with the last Kurt Elling release Night Moves as I thought it was a little over produced and did not let the real Kurt Elling show through even though it let the the real Kurt shine in places.

Daniel, Esq.

Jack, I take it you're not sticking around eMusic. Still, which jazz albums do you like from the Sony labels?

jackedUPjazz

I never said anything about leaving, I'm just tired of the shit

Linky

I haven't really explored any of the So-Nee jazz as I have a plate full of other stuff that I probably never will get to DL.

Plus they are charging like 12 credits for a 4 track album. Harrumph!

But still I've got my eye on a couple things

Freddie Hubbard looks interesting

Linky

and I'm gon get me some Mr T.

Linky

Not Jazz per se, but Herbie Hancock is always cool

Linky

and Wayne Shorter looks like a bargain

Linky

What you got?

CaptainWrong

If you don't have Red Clay, you need it. It's probably the best album Hubbard made and it's one of the finest jazz albums of it's time.

Daniel, Esq.

Honestly, I'm a little overwhelmed by the amount of quality jazz I see on the Sony labels. Here's some of it:

Miles Davis -- Nefertiti
Miles Davis -- Sketches Of Spain
Miles Davis -- Kind Of Blue
Miles Davis -- Bitches Brew
Miles Davis -- Miles Smiles
Miles Davis --Round About Midnight
Miles Davis -- Sorcerer
Miles Davis -- A Tribute to Jack Johnson
Miles Davis -- On The Corner
Miles Davis -- In A Silent Way
Miles Davis -- Live-Evil
Herbie Hancock -- Thrust
Herbie Hancock -- Sextant
Charles Mingus -- Ah Um
Charles Mingus -- Mingus Dynasty
Charles Mingus -- Let My Children Hear Music
Duke Ellington -- The Far East Suite (Special Mix)
Ornette Coleman -- The Complete Science Fiction Sessions
Ornette Coleman -- Skies Of America
Thelonious Monk -- Solo Monk
Max Roach -- M'Boom
Jaco Pastorius -- Jaco Pastorius
Wynton Marsalis -- Black Codes From The Underground
Stanley Clarke -- School Days
Rosemary Clooney/Duke Ellington & His Orchestra -- Blue Rose
Branford Marsalis -- Trio Jeepy
The Bad Plus -- Suspicious Activity
Thelonious Monk -- Monk's Dream
Billie Holiday -- Lady In Satin
Louis Armstrong -- Louis Armstrong Plays W.C. Handy
Art Tatum -- Piano Starts Here
Thelonious Monk -- Straight No Chaser
Duke Ellington -- Ellington At Newport 1956 (Complete)
The Dave Brubeck Quartet -- Time Out
Duke Ellington -- The Carnegie Hall Concerts (January 1943)
Duke Ellington -- Black Brown & Beige
Duke Ellington -- Such Sweet Thunder
Weather Report -- Heavy Weather

. . . among many others I'm sure I overlooked.

jackedUPjazz

Yeah, that is a nice start to what I am sure will be a long list.

Thanks for the Weather Report and Jaco Pastorius. I hadn't noticed them.

Mingus too

We probably should do some lists.

I've got one called new good stuff but it has very little jazz on it.

TimMason

Daniel, most of the items on your list turn up in the cheapo bins in the shops in Paris and have been doing so for some time. Aren't they available in the States?

Daniel, Esq.

Not where I live. South Florida is a hotbed for commercial pop, urban and Latin music, and that -- plus, I admit, a fair amount of indie and classic rock -- is what turns up in the used section of my local compact disc store (Spec's).

To test the theory (and because my head is hurting from a hectic day), I called Spec's to test the theory. A sampling:

Charles Mingus/Mingus Dynasty -- Not in Stock
Max Roach/M'Boom -- Not in Stock
Billie Holiday/Lady in Satin -- In Stock; New Only ($15.99)
Miles Davis/Jack Johnson -- In Stock; New Only (I believe $16.99, but that I called about a few days ago).

Now, there are other places I could go to locate the physical discs -- e.g., another, cooler indie record store in Little Haiti -- but (a) that's a dodgy neighborhood sometimes (I had a near confrontation there once, outside the record store, and decided it wasn't worth going back) and (b) they charge at least as much as Spec's. There are also other digital options -- e.g., Amazon and iTunes -- but I don't like having to work that hard (comparison-shopping), and I think eMusic's prices stack up well against their online competitors. And, at the moment, I'm getting these Sony titles for .33 a track, using the Best Buy cards. As I said elsewhere, by the time I'm done, I'll have almost all the Sony stuff I'd want for a very good price.

I do miss Paris, though, for entirely different reasons. What a magnificent city.

jackedUPjazz

somebody needs to sift thru this

LInky

Still pissed about this

Linky

Say what you want about the man, George Benson was the bridge the bridge that brought a lot of us over to jazz.

And when chooses to do so, the man can just flat out play

TimMason

Lady in Satin (new CD) is at 6,35 Euros from Amazon.fr (that's just under $9). Jack Johnson (new CD) is at 9,28 Euros - $13. Both can be found in used bins at much less. I can't believe you're paying those prices. Surely Amazon.com would give you better prices? Obviously emu is cheaper for you (European pricing is less attractive, although still competitive), but it sounds like your cd stores are pricing themselves out of the market.

Daniel, Esq.

In fairness to Spec's, I think they get by these days on (a) sales of DVDs and event-tickets and (b) used compact-discs. There's no doubt that their new compact-discs are high-priced, but that was true of the Virgin MegaStore, while it was operating in South Miami (and it's true of that cool indie record shop I mentioned upthread). New discs are expensive here!

choiceweb0pen0

Sure some of these albums might be available used approaching eMusic prices, though I know I got into Bebop about 4 years ago or so and many of Thelonious Monk's albums had been remastered with extra content, so were at a local record store around $13 or more. It is annoying to shell out 12 credits for a 4 track Sorry label album.

thomnottom

Honestly Tim, I've had a hard time ever finding good prices on jazz. And that's coming from someone who regularly sifted through some of the biggest purveyors of used CDs in NYC. Most of my jazz was purchased at $12+/disc. The under $10 ones I found were often crappy repackagings of bad live recordings.

That's why my jazz collection didn't go much of anywhere until the last 2 years on eMu. I am increasingly jealous of the French Amazon mp3 store.

TimMason

thom, you just walk down the bld st michel in paris, and you can pick up incredible bargains. i've heard it said that it's far easier to be a jazz lover in europe than in the states, but i never really believed it.

jonahpwll

The suspicions about the relationship between the Sony add and the emusic changes aside, for jazz fans, access to the Sony catalog (emusic and everywhere else) is a good thing. Some of the greatest jazz albums were recorded on the Sony label, and that fact doesn't change just because the Sony execs currently seated at staff meetings at the home office are a bunch of non-music-loving d-bags (allegedly).
Daniel, if you don't have any of that Miles Davis (Jack Johnson, Silent Way, Bitches Brew, Sketches, KoB), go buy it. Sometimes that stuff is my favorite, sometimes it's the classic quartet albums on Prestige, but it's all must-have music.
Beware Thelonious Monk on Columbia. Compared to his output on Riverside and Bluenote, it's second-rate. Briefly, Monk, terribly bitter about losing his cabaret card for bs reasons and unable to perform to support his family and play his music for a long time, signed that deal with Columbia in a money-grab and recorded a lot of the same tunes he already recorded on other labels, and, to my ears, with much less enthusiasm. That being said, there's some good stuff by Monk on Columbia. I'm just saying, with emusic credits going much less far than they used to, I'd choose Option B over Columbia Monk.
There is a rich vein of Charles Mingus to mine on Columbia. Some of the best stuff to feed your ears.
I didn't see Time Out/Dave Brubeck on your list, so I assume you either have it or got tired of making that list. I'm not a huge Brubeck fan (though Paul Desmond is amazing), but Time Out is a fantastic album. It just got reissued with bonus tracks, from a live concert, and I've heard from trusted others that the "bonus" material is exactly that. Always nice when the extra material isn't just a whole lotta filler.
Cheers.

eclectricity

Anyone here have an opinion on The Infinite by Dave Douglas? It's at 5 stars with 3 ratings, but that's not a very good gauge. Only proves that the nimrod who rates all jazz as 1 or 2 stars hasn't gotten to it. Samples sound pretty good, but it's on RCA Bluebird, so I'm not sure...

I was a little disappointed with Don Braden's Organic which was on a Sorry sub (Epicure - what's that?). It's not a bad record, but it didn't seem to have much fire either. Maybe it was my mood, I've only listened once.

Gotta be judicious with my last month's "credits".

jackedUPjazz

I gave all of the samples the five second test and I didn't get a tingle from any of them. Sounds a little too introspective for my liking but the musicianship sounds decent enough if you go in for that introspective stuff. But like you said, no fire.

But Deluge sounds like it might go someplace I might want to be.

thirstyear

"Beware Thelonious Monk on Columbia. Compared to his output on Riverside and Bluenote it's second-rate"
I used to believe this also but have come over the years to change my mind. In particular, I find that "Underground" and Straight, No Chaser" are
essential Monk albums. Underground contains the last great collection of new Monk compositions, and many of these tunes are still being played today
(e.g. Green Chimneys, Ugly Beauty). But the main reason to purchase them is the incredible interplay between Monk and Charlie Rouse. Rouse understood
Monk rhythmically better than any other sax player Monk worked with (and yes I know he worked with Coltrane, Rollins, Griffin, Hawkins, et.al.), and his
playing on these two discs is just amazing. The two of them play as one for long stretches, or Monk just lays out and Rouse plays Monk on sax. This is the Monk I listen to when I just want to groove, the music has an irresistible flow. It's not the amazing, incredibly creative Monk of his earlier years, but it is terrific nonetheless.
Just to let you know where I'm coming from, Monk has been my favorite jazz artist for 40 years, and I own every non-bootleg Monk album (and some of the bootlegs too). So although it's just my opinion, at least it's an informed opinion.

jonahpwll

Well, I think we're coming from a similar place (from a fan standpoint; not a album/bootleg ownership one). Monk has been my favorite jazz artist, pretty much from when I first started listening to jazz with some consistency. And despite my hesitancy to rec a Monk Columbia, I still enjoy Straight, No Chaser (studio album) and really really enjoy Monk's Dream, and don't forget the soundtrack from Straight, No Chaser (on Sony, also), which is one of the few jazz comps I'd ever recommend just because it's just so beautifully constructed. My warning about the Columbia Monk is given in the context of 1.) He has so much other amazing stuff out there, and 2.) eMusic credits don't go as far as they used to. But, yeah, if you've got the money to spend, go buy the Columbia Monk up, too. I mean, even though I'm saying maybe think twice about it, it's not like I followed my own advice or anything.

thirstyear

Well the critics have always been down on the Columbia Monk albums, but I really think the whole period is overdue for reevaluation. I listen to that period
of Monk differently than earlier Monk, its more about the interplay between Monk and Rouse and the flow of the music than great solos. Plus I just plain love Rouse's sound. I would add Live At The It Club to my list of recommended Columbia discs also, a terrific live set which the critics like too.
I recently downloaded tenor player Michael Blake's duet album with drummer Kresten Osgood. It's far from being the best I've ever heard Blake play, but the interaction between Blake and Osgood is so incredible it makes the album riveting. That's what I hear in (some of) the Monk Columbia discs.
I hear what you're saying about downloads not going as far as they used to, I think we're all feeling that pain.

Katrina

That Underground is a cassette I got in a bargain bin and was my first intro to Monk. I am sure I picked it because of the album cover, hehe. I really like it - favorite tracks are 'Thelonius' and 'Raise Four'.

thirstyear

Katrina, I hope the cassette version of Underground included the original liner notes. They are a very funny "explanation" of the objects on the cover and of Monk's participation in WWII. Almost as good as the cover itself.

cafreema

It's almost embarrasing to say, but I have no Monk in my collection. Dizzy, Miles, Coltrane, yes. Monk no. So, what one album is the best one for a fan of jazz (but faaaar from an expert) to own?

Craig

jackedUPjazz

I have enjoyed Monk with Trane

But I think you really want to make sure you get something with Monk playing Round Midnight

LInky

thirstyear

I'm going to go with Brilliant Corners, with Sonny Rollins, even though it will cost you 12 credits.
http://www.emusic.com/album/Thelonious-Monk-Brilliant-Corners-MP3-Download/10603809.html

jonahpwll

Brilliant Corners is a great album.
His albums with Coltrane are more good stuff.
jackedup's advice to get something with his take of 'Round Midnight is more good advice.
I'll add to that list, one of his Blue Note albums (which you'll find listed as Volume 1, 2, and 3. But maybe the one you should get is the soundtrack to the movie "Straight, No Chaser" which is a great compilation to have, and despite owning quite a few Monk albums myself, I enjoy listening to it as much as any other album I own. And normally I would never ever recommend a comp for someone with so much good stuff out there.
In the end, any of the advice you've received so far is the right choice to make.

EDIT: I just realized, I made these recs without seeing if they're available on emusic.

cafreema

That's okay, jonahpwll. The Ramsey County Library has Brilliant Corners, Thelonious Monk Quartet with John Coltrane at Carnegie Hall, and a Greatest Hits that has 'Round Midnight.

They've all been requested.

I'm surprised the RIAA has never cracked down on libraries. I guess even they have limits to their evil.

Craig

jonahpwll

I'm surprised the RIAA has never cracked down on libraries. I guess even they have limits to their evil.

I should be able to answer that one for you, but I can't remember the answer. I know libraries have to buy a license of some sort. My wife is a librarian. I'll ask her when she gets back from the store.

jackedUPjazz

A little help please

So there now seems to be quite a bit of Wynton Marsalis at TPWSNBS. I am looking for a particular performance and I cannot find it. I am hoping some of my esteemed co travelers will be able to assist me. Here is what I know about the song I am looking for.

It is a live performance
It is in a weird time signature 7/8 or something
They use a tambourine throughout
I believe the performance is fairly long 10 minutes or more
and I believe the the title is something about a flower or has a the word flower in it.
Also I believe it is from a fairly recent release since the year 2000 or so.

Go

mommio

Might it be Sunflowers?
Linky

I have no idea whether or not that is a live performance, but you can see a Quicktime clip of a recent rehearsal of Sunflowers here.

I don't think I have any Wynton Marsalis, so this guess is the result of a search.

Edit: Sunflowers is also on this album. This is the original recording, not the one linked above. Apparently this one is very popular at live performances.

jackedUPjazz

Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

Dang, mommio I did not expect that out of you. I got some people that owe me money, maybe you could track them down for me.


Ladies and gentlemen, this is why he is Wynton Marsalis

and you are NOT.