all hands on deck!!! especially if you play an instrument

edited September 2009 in General
hey folks - i'm hoping everyone from mutantis (some murky oceany depthy kinda place) to the top of nereffid's castle pipes in on this one as it is center to what i'm all about. namely my oldest (garrett) and something important to where he'll go in his life.

he's now in 5th grade and the school he attends - while public - is considered one of the best in the state. i attended curriculum nite and was blown away by the incredible depth of resources the school has to offer. great emphasis on the arts and the world -5 music teachers!!! 2 technology teachers, 4 language teachers (garrett chose german), 4 art teachers - as well as the traditional home room teacher (met her + she's very organized, energetic)

the critical issue and why i ask for your help before i blab further: garrett needs to select an instrument for music and his parents have no credible baseline to help him. advice?

back to blabbery, which you can ignore.

i could very easily do nothing - recognizing my pronounced limitations - and let the school do its thing. however, we've learned that parent involvement in education has a dramatic (and positive) effect on the learning process. probably to a fault, i know how garrett learns and parent involvement is essential.

as far as instruments go, garrett can select from a wind (flute, oboe, sax, two horns, clarinet), string (violin, viola, cello, bass) or percussion (a keyboard - mostly bells). i heart strings. and i really love the depth of the cello...so my bias is laid bare.

so...why am i bothering you with all this? i'd like to know your recollections of learning an instrument - why you chose it, what worked, what didn't? would you change anything given a 2nd chance? and then as it relates to learning > were you a natural? did a light come on? what types of torture should i stay away from to prevent scarring? etc.

also, did you play band? orchestra?

if possible, can someone link this to the emu site and start a thread "bissie: 68 requests your input"?

thankee.
68
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Comments

  • edited September 2009
    I learned the sax as a kid. Gave it up when I struggled too much in jazz band in my teens (never had a problem in the regular band). I really did love playing it, but watching other kids who barely practiced understand soloing so easily while it seemed so foreign to me was discouraging. Now I've come to realize that if I had been exposed to all of the jazz I listen to now back then, I definitely would have kept it up.

    Bums me out that I didn't stick with an instrument.

    My suggestion would be to let him hear various styles from the different instruments to figure out what his "voice" is - unless he really wants to learn the instrument it will be very difficult to make him stick with it. And if all else fails, turn to Mr. B Natural for help.
  • That is an incredible array of teachers. I wish I'd have had anything similar.

    At that same age I had to choose an instrument. This being the 80s the alto sax was the #1 choice because some rock bands had them, but because it was #1 I ended up with my second choice: trumpet. One of the best decisions I ever made.

    Why did I choose it? I don't really recall, except that it seemed cool.

    I ended up playing my trumpet all through high school (2nd chair regular band, 1st chair jazz band, played a solo in a competition at Disney World my junior year, drum major my senior (yeah, I'm a dork)). Then joined the Hawkeye Marching Band and Pep Band at Iowa. Let me tell you, being in a major college marching band made it all worthwhile. So much freakin' fun. Best of many great times was getting to sit courtside when the Hawkeyes won 4 games in 4 days to win the Big Ten Tournament and then get a free trip to NYC for the NCAA Tournament.

    I wasn't a natural, BUT the fact that I'd taken piano lessons for a couple of years was a huge help. It allowed me to be far ahead of the other newbies as far as reading music goes, which gave me confidence and caused me to improve faster. I don't recall any lights coming on, and can't really give any advice to prevent scarring. He'll just need to practice no matter what he plays and no matter how bad he is (and he'll be dreadful), and you'll just have to grin and bear it.

    In the end, I strongly recommend trumpet. In any situation other than orchestra it is one of the lead instruments so it always gets melody, which is fun, it's more challenging than most single reed instruments (based on tuning which most single reeds have no issue with), but isn't as difficult to control your tone as a french horn or baritone is. Plus (and as a youngster this is a big plus), it isn't a huge instrument with a large case to lug around.

    If you want any more information feel free to ask.

    Craig
  • It sounds like you have a wonderful boy! Congratulations.

    My little guy is but three years old, but he wants to grab instruments from me and play on his own already. He'll belt out Abiyoyo while strumming the open strings of my mando.

    Unfortunately, I never went to a school big enough to have a band, so I was never confronted with this choice. I picked up instruments as I encountered new musical situtations, and never had the joy of playing with a large ensemble. I might have gravitated to trumpet or trombone--something that would get people moving!

    Obviously you want to get him to pick an instrument he likes, hopefully one that will allow him to play music he likes--there isn't a whole lot of cello in Jazz, if that's what he likes.

    That said, I think that there are two instruments that could carry him best into a lifetime of music: violin and bass. Violin is a classic lead instrument, and has a place in many styles, even to some extent in blues. Bass, on the other hand, is ubiquitous, and he'd easily find people who want to play with him.
  • I didn't get the benefit of musical education in school - wish I had - and picked up guitar, later bass, on my own, and not with any seriousness until my thirties. If I had a do-over playing the piano would be my first choice, as it's the most self-contained instrument in terms of solo or combo. I would pick the cello as a string, but the bass would also do - good bass players can always get a gig - although violin might be the best genre-crosser as BT pointed out. Wish I had learned to read music back in the day. It is a great thing for anybody though.
  • I'm responding because you asked, but I, too, didn't play an instrument in school and I don't have kids. I picked up bass when I was 17 on my own, and have been playing since. So I don't really have any great advice for you, other than to let him figure out what he likes... he's 10 or 11, right, so I would think he'd have an opinion. I myself would probably choose keyboard, because it's something he can enjoy for his life, even if he doesn't get heavily involved in music later... and he can go a lot of directions with it. Plus, *YOU* could also learn some keyboard, and truly make it a parental involvement thing.
  • For my "formal" education, I started on saxophone and eventually took up french horn and trumpet in high school. Never really loved the sax, the trumpet was only during marching band season but the french horn I loved (and I was less than mediocre player) because when you hit a note just right your whole body would just sing with it. Informally, I began playing bass in my early teens and still have two hanging on my wall that I pull down from time to time and play when I'm either on a conference call or mulling over some snarly programming/systems issue. The bass was the only other instrument I've tried that gave me the same sense of euphoria as the french horn did.
  • I took piano lessons as a kid, and wish I'd stuck with them. I began self-teaching myself clarinet and alto-sax in my late twenties before life threw me a curveball and I had to set them aside for awhile.
    Screw that emu board. If you want some advice from musicians, sign up on Allaboutjazz.com and start a thread about it. There's a lot of musicians on that board, some professional, some just a labor of love, but you should get some pretty good replies from that.
    Good luck with it, whatever gets decided.
  • 68,

    Something else you should keep in mind: he'll be more successful as a musician if he can play with his parents as well as in school. It'd be great if music time was also family time.
  • 68 - Sounds wonderful.

    I played violin in the Youth Symphony Orchestra in Washington DC and it was a terrific experience. If you play violin there is always a boatload of music written for your instrument and your part will be one of the main voices in many pieces. The violin is a great instrument from which to start.

    My oldest son chose to play cello in school when he realized that there was only one other cello player in the school orchestra, and there were about a million violinists.

    I look forward to reading your narrative as the story unfolds.
  • @mutantis - thx for the input. you're right about letting him decide/show his interest...we talked about how he chose german as his language and once he decided there was no turning back...so far he's digging german and he gets the voltage from making the choice.

    turning to music tho, we have a short window to decide and he wanted to chose the old familiar recorder. recorder is not an option. clarinet would be the lazy linear thing but i'd like to present a bit more info to him before he decides.

    now, to all of you - great stuff - wild to hear how the experience can last a lifetime and, as a parent, you'd like to set that path before him.

    o - the school provides instruments so we don't have to worry about hauling anything - we then rent whatever he decides to practice at home.

    any wii things out there that might allow the family thing to kick in?
  • I would have said that if there's any doubt, go for the keyboard. Here's a site which tries to help people choose an instrument. He might find that useful.
  • I wanted to play piano, so my parents bought an old one, but didn't have the money to tune/repair. I did take lessons for a while and loved it, but gave up because it was so out of tune. Then in 8th grade, our small school started a band, and I took up the clarinet. I liked that, too, and played clarinet all through high school. I got my own piano in my 20s, and I still play, but for myself, not publicly.

    My younger daughter, on her own, wanted to play violin when she was in the 4th grade. The school provided the instrument. It turned out that she had talent, so I rented a better violin for her. In 6th grade she wanted to audition for the Louisville Youth Orchestra, and to my surprise, she got in. Her school music teacher began giving her private lessons. She continued to improve, and in her freshman year decided she wanted to switch to viola because she preferred the mellower sound. She did extremely well, and played in the university orchestra, the university opera orchestra, and a chamber group that played in local churches in her university city. No, music was not her major. She still plays for herself and I love hearing her play.

    Her daughter is now 3-1/2. She enrolled her in a KinderMusic group to expose her to rhythm and the pleasure of making music with others. She has explored options and has been told that it is best for children to start with piano because they learn music theory that they don't learn with other instruments. Now, that may be true, but I can't say because I can read music, but I don't understand lots of the theory.

    I, too, encourage letting your son have some say. You can buy a relatively inexpensive keyboard to expose him to the joys of piano plus all the other fun things one can do with a keyboard. You might find the keyboard a fun thing to play with, too. If he wants to try piano, rental pianos are also a possibility. There's no reason he can't do piano and another instrument. If he is interested in the recorder, have him try the flute.

    I do think the piano is an instrument that one can enjoy throughout one's life. It really doesn't matter, so long as he is exposed to the joys of making music. In addition, there's plenty of research to suggest that playing an instrument will have a positive impact on his academic skills.

    Good for you, Dad, for being so enthusiastic about this. Be careful, though, about making this more about your wishes than his. It's good to support, give opportunities, etc., but if it's his thing, he will be more likely to persevere.
  • edited September 2009
    Agree with mommio - if you ask your son, what's his first reply? I'd go with that. If there are no budget or space restraints, get whatever he'd pick. I think he'd be more inclined to practice something he picked.

    For me, my mom picked piano because we already had one, and it was really her dream to learn it as a child, but they didn't have the money for a piano or lessons when she was young.

    My advice is to rent an instrument at first. And let him know it's OK to switch. He might find he doesn't like strings, and a change to a wind instrument wouldn't be a bad thing. It's all very fine to learn to stick with something, but childhood is also a great time of exploration. The main thing here would be to learn to read music and count time.


    edit - for some reason, my son's school also had bells. Boys that age (6th-8th grade) seem to like them. I personally thought they were crap, but I never told my son that.
    Take your son to a music store and let him check things out.
  • edited September 2009
    There's a Wii Music game, but it's not highly rated.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Music
  • We've got that Wii music game, and I think it can add a lot to a non-musician's exploration of music. A lot of rhythm, relative pitch, etc. kind of stuff in there.

    I thought I had posted yesterday but must have hit the wrong button--I would give strong consideration to tenor saxophone for the following reasons: 1. Not as many kids choose it as alto, so the student stands a better chance at feeling good about being the 2nd tenor player rather than the 9th alto. 2) If the student chooses to change to (or double on) a different sax, it's easy to move up to alto or down to baritone. 3) Tenor kicks ass in marching band (baritone kicks even more...) 4. If the player decides they want to play outside of the school band, most rock/jazz combos can make do with a tenor quite easily.

    full disclosure--I started on alto sax but wound up playing both tenor and bari. Bari was way fun in marching band because there were only 2 of us making a god-awful racket rivalled only by the trombone section. Tenor was great in jazz and pep bands because it found more cool harmonies and/or solo opportunities than alto. Alto is cheaper, by far, to by a student horn, however. I would also suggest staying away from eBay horns unless you really really know what you're doing. Your local music shop endorsed by the band department will take care of you, and the difference in cost is well worth it.
  • Great topic idea. When I was in either the 4th or 5th grade, I went to a special field trip to hear the Columbus Symphony play Prokofiev's Peter and the Wolf. For some reason (perhaps also Looney Tunes Soundtracks) I fell in love with the Bassoon. Unfortunately, it wasn't one of the choices in 5th grade band, so I ended up on Clarinet. Finally in 8th grade my parents tracked down a bassoon and I never looked back. eMusic has quite a lot of bassoon music thankfully. So does Indie music here and there.

    I'm not sure I would recommend anyone start on the bassoon unless you can find someone that knows how to play and the various bizarre techniques it requires. I would let me kid play whatever he or she wanted.
  • When I was 6, I wanted to learn guitar. Naturally, my father instead bought me a toy piano. Then he signed me up for lessons, and I took piano for about 10 years. I stopped improving after 2 years. My hands are small, my fingering wasn't great, and I didn't have any knack for it. I considered it a waste of time.

    I'm now 39 and occasionally sing with a band. I still can't play guitar, and I admit it sometimes pisses me off that I didn't get the chance to learn as a youngster. But if it had really been important to me, of course I would have picked it up later.
  • this is really a wild ride, folks. i'll hold off telling you...

    to be continued...
  • 68,
    Here's a quick cheeky one.
    The ukulele.
    After the success of the 'Ukule Orchestra of Great Britain', a group of eager beavers showing and entertaining the masses with basic chords,some education authorities have realised that this small delight can encourage a need to participate in the making of harmony.
    Yeah ok..some schools are offering uke lessons as opposed to the traditional recorder.(now there's a thought..a woodwind instrument,centuries old.based on the tabor/german flute being pushed aside for a small noveltey guitar).
    I,meself,make an Anglo irish accordian wince and scream on a regular basis.
  • to my surprise...
  • Percussion -- you didn't mention drums. How about a kid who wants to keep the beat?

    68, you are dragging out this suspense! Please. Tell us. Soon.
  • backdrop: mia was in boston last week for a conference leaving me with the boys for 4 days. i had to cover curriculum nite...i came away with the impression we had about two weeks to research. well, friday we drive to my little hometown (90 miles west of chicago) to visit my folks...well into our ride and cornfields on either side, garrett announces oh dad, i chose the viola for my instrument.

    there you have it. i did not ask him what made him decide - it was one of those moments where it was all his choice and it was best to just let it sit at that level...his choice.

    we picked up mia from the airport saturday evening...when he told her, she said "that's great! what made you decide on the viola?"

    as it turns out, they let the kids sample a few instruments to see how comfy they'd be with each and he said he really liked the sound of the viola. there you have it. viola. i'm sure you saw that coming.
  • He is certainly correct about the great sound of the viola. Beautiful rich sound....once you get past the screaching stage of course!

    Be sure to keep us updated on his progress, and I'll look forward to his debut japanese inspired symphony in 20 years!

    Craig
  • Yeah! I love the viola and have downloaded several viola albums from eMu. Although the violin can be stunningly beautiful, I do prefer the sound of the viola. I do hope he likes it. If he doesn't -- there are more instruments to try, aren't there?

    There is such joy in making music with a group. We had all-county band and chorus in the spring when I was a teen. The county was primarily rural with a few small towns, so the combined bands and choruses weren't huge, but they seemed huge to me at the time. They brought in "experts," from Indiana University or similar. Band rehearsed in the morning and chorus in the afternoon, with the performances in the evening. I remember those as the highlights of my music education during my high school years.

    I suppose athletes find that same joy in the competition. It is great when kids can find some "team" type activity that they really enjoy during their growing up years.
  • Thank goodness! I was dying to know what he'd chosen.
  • I just watched a movie, Deception with Bette Davis married to a cellist the other night. A viola will certainly be easier to cart around!
  • update: mia took the boys to the music store...or to 3 music stores, i should say. apparently these places are busy as sin this time of year.

    sidebar - anyone have an extra music stand??? will trade 5cd's for music stand!!! will cafreema part with his childhood music stand for a copy of the mat's "let it be"...???...!!!

    he has his viola. and shoulder brace. and music book. the viola is on rental...i think it's a "junior". i'm going to chx craigslist to see if one might be floating out there as this thing is pretty dinged.

    of course i'll film a few 30 second clips and upload over time.
  • I should have one somewhere that I don't need anymore. I'm leaving town in a few hours though, so I won't be able to look until Sunday.

    As for Let It Be, fan-freakin'-tastic album, but I already have it!

    Craig
  • Rats, we sold our music stand with the drum set.
  • edited September 2009
    I have a music stand for you! Made by Belmonte - pretty sturdy one, not the kind that folds up.

    Picture here: http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-CBR-BEL5051B-LIST?SRC=D0407FG0HAMS0000&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=feed&

    How shall we proceed?
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