@NankerP, thanks for the link. Didn't know about that. The notion of copyright violation being enforced at the level of a few parallel bars seems wrongheaded to me. The notion that someone who has created a particular performance and recording should be able to sell that without others stealing it or selling it under their own name makes sense to me; the idea that someone can permanently own a particular sequence of notes whether or not they are played on a different instrument in a different song and whether or not they make up a whole work seems awry. It's like banning literary allusion and quotation.
As for the "Down Under" article. Sigh. If that guy thinks asking for 60% of royalties in that situation (seriously, no one had noticed any similarity for 20 years!) was reasonable he's stupider than words can say. Recently The Hives released a single, "Go Right Ahead" that has as it's main riff a clear rip off of ELO's "Don't Bring Me Down". They claim they didn't realize it until after the album was finished, but listen to this and tell me that makes sense. Anyway, they called Jeff Lynne and asked him if he wanted a writing credit. He said 'yes' (as he should). THAT deserves a writing credit and royalties. The "Down Under" stuff does not.
The fact that the Kookaburra Song itself used a folk melody ought to disqualify it (unless Men at Work had actually sang its words). It's almost as stupid of a lawsuit as Bittersweet Symphony.
I don't believe Jagger and Richards participated in the lawsuit. It was entirely driven by Allen Klein, RS' former and estranged manager.
As for ripping off other musicians, "Last Time" was a total rip off of Pops Staples, but the bit that Verve used was from an orchestral version of the song that was not present in the Stones' single.
RE: Men at Work and Music Plagiarism: Whenever Amazon discounts some Led Zeppelin, I consider actually getting one album of theirs. I figure that they've made some contribution to traditional music. But then I start pondering their rampant plagiarism. Anyway, I found this interview on Howard Stern discussing specifically this issue. What came up repeatedly is that the original writers never heard the Led Zeppelin versions, so decades went by before they sought compensation. One writer, Anne Bredon, was asked by her own son why she played a Led Zeppelin song! Making the story more complicated: it seems they sold off their entire catalog so that the band members are no longer responsible.
According to Wikipedia Bredon did eventually get a bunch of dough in the end so there's that. That's creator vs creator though, this is creator vs someone who bought the copyright off someone who bought the copyright off someone who was donated the copyright from people who were bequeathed the copyright. The "patent troll" aspect of it turns me off ....
denver, do you mean the thread has been deleted, or that your comment was deleted?
When I click on the link, I get temporarily unavailable. But the thread I believe is the one linked is still there on page 2 -- New Cassette-Only Labels Arrive.
Deleted my comment. I just read that thread. Imagine the results if all that firepower and time could have been focused more useful than jumping all over a simple post.
This makes me sad and nervous, I'm still happy getting 90% of my music from there and if it goes away entirely (which I have been prepared for for a while since they cut off my whole continent from new sign ups entirely) my music habits will change a lot. ;-(
Is that the site that always seemed to have a grudge against eMu? Can't remember who, but one of those digital music news sites only ever spoke about eMusic in a very negative light. Not saying that article is false or anything - I'm sure it's very true. eMusic actually seems to have a worse presence today than when it was totally "indie" - heck, check out the ad that still runs on the Maxwell's site: 50 free songs! No one has noticed that yet?
I really want to bitch more about the posters in that other thread (seriously, someone comes here, sees the one thread about eMusic that covers what's going on over there and decides it's too "high school"? maybe if you're in junior high...) but instead just thought it would be funny if someone posted that Stones Throw was going cassette-only.
Yes, you're right, it was Hypebot. The thing with them was that even before the Sony fiasco the guy used to slam eMu for some bizarre things like not being completely transparent in their finances.
Was just sitting reflecting that if those numbers for emusic are true, they suggest the futility/redundancy of the now-sputtering-but-not-quite-dead-campaigns on the emusic board for things to change. The numbers (if reliable) suggest that some combination of the following may be true:
1. most of those who cared the most about the issues that were being complained about have already left; perhaps one reason why the board there is so dead now is that there are few left who are invested in those discussions.
2. emusic don't need the rhetoric of anyone on the board there to hold their feet to fire, remind them of their righteous duty to their longsuffering users, etc. If they really lost over a third of their subscribers in the last couple of years, they are pretty well aware it's not going well and that some of the unpopular moves were, well, unpopular. And it's not the eloquence of the board that told them. The stoic customerspeak on the boards is more about sustaining the impression of being viable than not acknowledging there are issues. The $10 gifts for being faithful customers also make more sense.
3. when stuff is not getting fixed/responded to/etc. it is probably mostly because they have very finite and dwindling resources to work on things and are probably trying to focus those on developing new things that they hope might attract customers and give the existing ones a sense of new resources (the short-lived ipad app, the infinite explorations thing, etc). One could get into a loop here about the merits of attracting new users to an experience that the old users are not enjoying, but I can see where you might have to make some stark choices about what to actually get the techs to work on. In that climate things like the SFL numbering bug are probably just there to stay.
If such is the case, then while there was a time a while back when laying out the issues on the board over there seemed to lead to responses and changes, perhaps the time when there is any sense at all doing that kind of thing there has simply passed. I could raise this there, but I really can't even be bothered with the "conversation" that would result.
Ironically, Mr. Klein still seems to be going round doing seminars at conferences on how to get customers to buy digital music. So either those reported figures are way off or he has a lot of chutzpah or its another part of some strategy to make things better by talking as if they are.
This is just a brief mention of eMu in this NPR piece, but it appears that old wounds still smart:
A case in point is eMusic. Mills says Beggars had to pull out of the download service after the majors made a deal that changed the terms of the contract. Beggars Group won't discuss details but Mills says the new terms were impossible to accept.
@BigD:
I noticed that you responded to someone about getting the bit rate from song samples at eMu. I don't know if you remember this bit from a recent thread:
72 hours past refresh and I haven't downloaded a thing - my, how the worm has turned. They have definitely turned musical discovery into a chore over there - I have plenty in the SFL but now I'm burdened by having to weigh more judiciously - just ain't as it used to be.
@BT - I love that little gem - "sample without a deduction" - it's almost Orwellian in its portrayal of what I thought "sample" meant in the first place. I do think a sh.... oops, I mean poor quality rip would sound bad in the sample (I can remember a few) but I don't have the tech knowledge to say for sure that the bitrate of MP3 and sample are necessarily the same.
Oh, and isn't it nice of them to provide such a wonderful service for their customers.....oh, wait, don't all the download services do the same?
Oh, wait, I take back anything bad I ever said because I can hardly wait to get home where I can actually play samples so I can check out the most downloaded blues release of the week because anything with a song entitled The Farting Werewolf has to be a classic. Perhaps I rush to judgment, but I'd be surprised.
This on the other hand might be worth your while depending how many of these tunes you already have - 2 disc Allen Toussaint from Charly for $5.84.
Loss of members does explain a lot - a cheaper website, lack of response to message board etc. It might also explain why we haven't yet got the majors here - Cathy promised we'd get them within a year nearly two years ago. They don't want the drop in Europe that they had in the States when that happened.
July 2012 - another month without a booster pack - that is so unlike years gone by, and not the first month like it this year, and no month with more than one - can you say dropping revenues, Mr. Klein?
Oh, and I wasn't wrong about The Farting Werewolf - I just don't understand how it became Most Downloaded blues release of the week at that time. Maybe he bought it himself enough times to get on the board and nobody else bought squat.
Just got my first recommendation for me from emusic. The problem is that it is not available in the UK!! I can't tell whether I'd like it or not. Some things never change....
Comments
If you let them they would...
As for the "Down Under" article. Sigh. If that guy thinks asking for 60% of royalties in that situation (seriously, no one had noticed any similarity for 20 years!) was reasonable he's stupider than words can say. Recently The Hives released a single, "Go Right Ahead" that has as it's main riff a clear rip off of ELO's "Don't Bring Me Down". They claim they didn't realize it until after the album was finished, but listen to this and tell me that makes sense. Anyway, they called Jeff Lynne and asked him if he wanted a writing credit. He said 'yes' (as he should). THAT deserves a writing credit and royalties. The "Down Under" stuff does not.
Craig
Whenever I hear or see the Stones now, I can't help but think, "hey, those were the cocksuckers who broke up the Verve."
And considering, basically, that the Stones ripped off, like, how many different blues musicians to make their music, yeah?
As for ripping off other musicians, "Last Time" was a total rip off of Pops Staples, but the bit that Verve used was from an orchestral version of the song that was not present in the Stones' single.
For reference: Staples' Singers This Will Be The Last Time.
When I click on the link, I get temporarily unavailable. But the thread I believe is the one linked is still there on page 2 -- New Cassette-Only Labels Arrive.
ETA: it does.
- This is apparently what happens when you change to "Newest first".
This makes me sad and nervous, I'm still happy getting 90% of my music from there and if it goes away entirely (which I have been prepared for for a while since they cut off my whole continent from new sign ups entirely) my music habits will change a lot. ;-(
Craig
I really want to bitch more about the posters in that other thread (seriously, someone comes here, sees the one thread about eMusic that covers what's going on over there and decides it's too "high school"? maybe if you're in junior high...) but instead just thought it would be funny if someone posted that Stones Throw was going cassette-only.
1. most of those who cared the most about the issues that were being complained about have already left; perhaps one reason why the board there is so dead now is that there are few left who are invested in those discussions.
2. emusic don't need the rhetoric of anyone on the board there to hold their feet to fire, remind them of their righteous duty to their longsuffering users, etc. If they really lost over a third of their subscribers in the last couple of years, they are pretty well aware it's not going well and that some of the unpopular moves were, well, unpopular. And it's not the eloquence of the board that told them. The stoic customerspeak on the boards is more about sustaining the impression of being viable than not acknowledging there are issues. The $10 gifts for being faithful customers also make more sense.
3. when stuff is not getting fixed/responded to/etc. it is probably mostly because they have very finite and dwindling resources to work on things and are probably trying to focus those on developing new things that they hope might attract customers and give the existing ones a sense of new resources (the short-lived ipad app, the infinite explorations thing, etc). One could get into a loop here about the merits of attracting new users to an experience that the old users are not enjoying, but I can see where you might have to make some stark choices about what to actually get the techs to work on. In that climate things like the SFL numbering bug are probably just there to stay.
If such is the case, then while there was a time a while back when laying out the issues on the board over there seemed to lead to responses and changes, perhaps the time when there is any sense at all doing that kind of thing there has simply passed. I could raise this there, but I really can't even be bothered with the "conversation" that would result.
Ironically, Mr. Klein still seems to be going round doing seminars at conferences on how to get customers to buy digital music. So either those reported figures are way off or he has a lot of chutzpah or its another part of some strategy to make things better by talking as if they are.
I noticed that you responded to someone about getting the bit rate from song samples at eMu. I don't know if you remember this bit from a recent thread: This suggests that you should have a direct sense of the rip quality. (I would post this myself, but I do not currently subscribe.)
@BT - I love that little gem - "sample without a deduction" - it's almost Orwellian in its portrayal of what I thought "sample" meant in the first place. I do think a sh.... oops, I mean poor quality rip would sound bad in the sample (I can remember a few) but I don't have the tech knowledge to say for sure that the bitrate of MP3 and sample are necessarily the same.
Oh, and isn't it nice of them to provide such a wonderful service for their customers.....oh, wait, don't all the download services do the same?
Oh, wait, I take back anything bad I ever said because I can hardly wait to get home where I can actually play samples so I can check out the most downloaded blues release of the week because anything with a song entitled The Farting Werewolf has to be a classic. Perhaps I rush to judgment, but I'd be surprised.
This on the other hand might be worth your while depending how many of these tunes you already have - 2 disc Allen Toussaint from Charly for $5.84.
Oh, and I wasn't wrong about The Farting Werewolf - I just don't understand how it became Most Downloaded blues release of the week at that time. Maybe he bought it himself enough times to get on the board and nobody else bought squat.